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Rev bouncing/surging around 4200rpm - NB8a

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:50 pm
by 22Silver
Hey guys,

Not sure where to post this really; I have no idea where the problem is so I'll just post it here.
Feel free to skim through the underlined parts if you don't want to read a great wall of text

First up- the car has 7000km old spark plugs and rocker-cover gasket, along with fuel filter, air filter, oil filter and oil.
It also has more aggressive cams, slightly advanced timing (neither of which has caused no problems for many tens of thousands of kilometers) and a brand new alternator (immediately after which the problem began to get worse.)

Before the alternator the car would surge down and stall occasionally at idle, especially while braking at a red light, at low speed, in the last 30m when I would slip into neutral after shedding 90% of my speed. It would also skip a little, with a short little rev drop at about 5800-6200, like a cylinder missing, which I first noticed while I was thrasher her a little at Sandown.

I adjusted my idle using the screw on the side of the air intake where the rubber meets the manifold, up to about 1050-1100 to stop the surge from stalling the car. I had it like this for for about 3 weeks till the battery died (turned out to actually be the alternator). After I got the alternator replaced the problems started. The mechanic said that the idle screw I had adjusted shouldn't be messed with, and the mechanic 'reset' something, but didn't specify what, and it wasn't just the idle screw by the look of it. After this the car began to do the surging thing at 4200rpm, almost as if my rev limiter were set at 4200.

A few times the car has "stalled", mostly at 4500rpm-ish when I go onto a freeway. Despite the engine still rolling at 95-100kmph in 5th or 4th gear, the revs say zero and I cannot in any manner accelerate. It basically acts as if the car is turned off. This always follows a "rev bounce session". I will add that the rev limit of 4200 doesn't happen ALL the time, only 80% of the time, particularly at higher speeds. It should also be noted that this number shifts to about 30% of the time if I rev the car in neutral and parked.

When I got the alternator changed the mechanic mentioned that my little engine miss every now and then at over 6400rpm, along with my surge-y idle was probably caused by an "electronics or ECU problem" and that I should bring it in for them to check up for me. I may be seriously paranoid and totally wrong, but it almost feels like he tweaked something to play up so he could charge me for an expensive ECU replacement or something, and not really need to replace anything, just untweak it. It just doesn't make sense that I would change my alternator over, and fix the idle issue while causing the redline to shift to 4200rpm.

If anyone has had this before I would seriously appreciate knowing what ended up causing the issue.

Re: Rev bouncing/surging around 4200rpm - NB8a

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:07 pm
by Alf
I had some similar symptoms on my SE. For me it was a damaged keyway in the bottom pulley on the timing belt, causing the pulley to wobble all over the place. This could be seen with the naked eye, but was really obvious with a timing light. Luckily, it was the pulley that was damaged, not the crankshaft. I believe it was improperly tightened at the 100,000 km service. After the dealership replaced the pulley (FOC because I was adamant that it was their FU as they were the only ones to have touched my nether regions) it ran perfectly again.

This may not be your problem but, if it is, I'd advise getting it seen to before it wrecks the crankshaft keyway.

Re: Rev bouncing/surging around 4200rpm - NB8a

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:40 am
by Ross
When it stalls whilst driving, do the ignition lights come on? ie do you still have power?
If the car is rolling at 90kmh and still in gear, if you have power the tach should still work.
Seems you might have an electrical problem.

Re: Rev bouncing/surging around 4200rpm - NB8a

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:00 am
by AndrewM
This sounds like the issue I had with my NB8A - turned out to be a clogged fuel pump sock (located on a bracket insode the fuel tank) and related fuel filter (which is under the drivers seat). Once cleaned it was fixed - came about as a result of the car sitting for some time prior to my purchase with a low level in the fuel tank and subsequent rust forming inside the tank.

I'd be checking your fuel tank and filters first up. Pretty easy job to get it out of the tank..

Re: Rev bouncing/surging around 4200rpm - NB8a

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:55 pm
by Mr Morlock
I dont reckon you could work out what is causing it from that description, The gurus here could give you a list of items and how is that going to help. Any pro is essentially going to want to check items themselves. A diagnosis guy will go through the process and usually has a standard charge as a minimum to find the fault. There is a guy in Mitcham who does this work. As a blind guess it may be a coil problem but thats a guess. If you want a name I will look it up.

Re: Rev bouncing/surging around 4200rpm - NB8a

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:12 am
by 22Silver
A name would be great Mr. Morlock!
Sounds like this issue is out of my diagnostic league. A shame, since I've managed to do everything myself- bar the engine bearings I melted..
I did forget to mention that 80% of the engine (everything but the block basically) is only 20,000km old.

I just hope it isn't a dead/dying ecu, as I've heard an ecu replacement means ign barrel, locks and keys too.

Re: Rev bouncing/surging around 4200rpm - NB8a

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:55 am
by 93_Clubman
Following MX5 diagnostic checklist might help:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1P63nz ... edit?pli=1

Checklist is based on this initial development post:
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=279746
In use:
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=461932

22Silver wrote:I just hope it isn't a dead/dying ecu, as I've heard an ecu replacement means ign barrel, locks and keys too.

Not sure if above applies to the NB8A, but NB8B ECU change requires matching immobiliser & key etc, although think JDM ECU can work around that. Some recent info re this issue on NB SE: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=69379