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electronic boost controller vs manual bc & guage
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:02 am
by piltrid
Hi all,
I've a completely stock SE, I'm looking at the following mods:
FM downpipe, FM O2 modifier, FM/Biegi throttle inlet, GFB plumback BOV, increasing boost to 10psi.
A boost guage costs ~$150, a mbc ~$100-$150.
A \"GReddy Profec B SPEC II\" ebc (which displays boost) can be picked up for ~$480 (shop not ebay).
Once set right, does an ebc mean i shouldn't have to re-adjust for seasonal temperature changes?
I'd prefer to leave the dash stock looking and was thinking of mounting one in the glove box (it sounds an alarm when a set boost threshhold is reached, displays max boost reached, and has overboost protection, so i should still be able to keep an eye on things).
I've never used a ebc, mbc, or boost guage before, but for ~$200 more, the ebc seems the easier/safer way to go.
any thoughts,experiences,advice?
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:44 am
by Fatty
or you could pick up the jaycar ebc for $79, plus $59 for the hand controller unit you'll need to program it. (or seeing as you're in melb, you could borrow my hand controller). you would still need a gauge as it does not display boost, as far as i know.
you need to build it yourself tho, easy enough if you have any soldering experience.
Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:10 pm
by piltrid
Done all of these exact mods. myself with a GFB mbc.
Not surprising Boris, i was originally after a SPM kit, but price was a bit prohibitive & and i wanted to keep mods to a minimum. It was one of your older posts \"bang for the buck\"? that really made me sit up and take notice. Doing my mods based on yours!
ps - i was going to order a begi throttle body & GFB plumback with the stock sizeings, and noticed on the mazdaspeed forums you did the same, were you able to use all the stock hoses?, any problems (other than the throttle inlet fault you had)?
Fatty, recently read the old autospeed article on the jaycar ebc and it sounds great for an unbelievable price. Unfortunately my soldering sucks (i'd rather start with a simpler system anyway). Thanks for the offer.
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:11 pm
by The Pupat
Electronic ones are the go will perform a lot better. Most \"manual boost controllers\" and a 10 dollar plumbing valve basically.
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:20 pm
by timk
I'm picking one up tomorrow from a mate, so I can let you know. I doubt I'll fit it until I can get a dyno run done to make sure I don't lean out, though.
Re:
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:31 pm
by Sean
I had one of these cheap ebay style on a car I helped a mate put together. No problems at all, the spike was not really noticeable over a turbosmart MBC. (boost logged via ECU I'll try to dig up the actual log file and take a screen shot).
Advantage of EBC is you can bring the boost on a little quicker and control a little overboost/spike if you want it, you can also have numerous in cabin settings.
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:43 am
by Garry
C+C,
I got one of those MBC's after reading about 20 pages of praise for it on the Skyline forum. It seemed to work OK on the SP and I didn't notice any boost spiking on my boost gauge. We tried it out on the moneypit and it did spike a bit in that application.
The only problem I had with it was the coarse thread used on the adjusting bolt. It made fine adjustments very difficult.
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:00 pm
by Ronin
electronic boost controller is the way to go. If set up right, will come on boost faster (the higher your boost level) and is more reliable than a bleed valve ( or manual boost controller if you prefer) which will alter boost levels and spike a lot, in cold weather especially. You can't trust a bleed valve, its the dodgy back-yarder's choice, invest in quality gear you'll be glad you did.
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:02 pm
by Ronin
oh for cheap aftermarket parts, new ones any way try this:
www.nengun.comI've used him a few times, he's reliable.
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:45 pm
by Ronin
all I'm saying is you get what you pay for....
I have experience with a turbosmart boost T.
It spiked on me and I blew a head gasket ( well me and the car actually).... I should have known better, they do a rotten job of controlling boost. I would rather run stock boost levels from the actuator than risk using a bleed valve again.
The small difference in price between EBC and Shonky bleed valve is a worthwhile investment, for piece of mind alone.
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:47 pm
by Ronin
.....and it sounds cool to tell people you have a EBC
Re:
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:46 pm
by blackster
C+C wrote:The SE has an inbuilt boost cut off at 10.5 psi from the ecu, so would this not limit the likliehood of boost spike to a dangerous level?
Carlo, post this subject on the mazdaspeed forum, I believe you will get a greater responce from SE/mazdaspeed users who have experience with a variety of different MBC's.
Came accross this.
http://www.miataspeed.com/howto/MBC.htmlYou could also msg Boyracer as he had Turbosmart Tee gated MBC on his racey. I believe he is no longer uses it as he has opted for a EBC.
Took that photo when his racey was at the panel shop, however the car had not hit the track yet.
Re: boost controllers
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:55 pm
by The Pupat
antmx5 wrote:this is the way i understood boost controllers....
First of all the Manual boost controller (MBC) is normally plumed into the vac line before the waste gate actuator. A MBC is basically a device that has a spring (of certain tension/compression rates) inside that can be crushed/compressed giving the valve a certain required pressure to open. The problem is that they are fiddly and tend to taper of high in the revs.
The Electonic Boost Controllers (EBC) are a whole new kettle of fish. There are two types. Closed loop and Open loop.
The Jaycar kits are an example of a closed loop boost controller. They work of the duty cycle of the engine and send an according pulse signal to the waste gate solinoid. As the boost tapers in the higher revs the signal changes to close the waste gate slightly and hence increases boost to the set level. Ie. the turbo will boost to the set level (10psi) and continue to hold that to the red line!!
The open loop EBC works directly off the vacum lines (ie. messuring directly off the boost). They are the most accurate type off aftermarket boost controller. They too send a signal to the wastegate solinoid and allow for turbo taper aswell.
Hope this helps
Ant
You've got it the wrong way round. True Closed loop is there the boost controller monitors the actually pressure in the inlet manifold and then corrects itself accordingly. The Jaycar one by your desciption is open loop, IE it is receiving an input from the engine RPM and as such it is going to the lookup table and respond according to how it has been told to. At no stage can it correct if the system if changed from the norm.
