Club Runs and Excessive Speeding

[gslender]

Not a good thread. Poorly handled.

[wozzah1975]

It's called choosing your words carefully. I guess you don't have to worry about that all the way up there on your high horse

Funnily enough I'm just looking to discuss this like adults without all the hyperbole and false accusations of criminally unsafe speeds. Perhaps you might like to read everything I've said without the bias goggles...

Why do you have to choose your words carefully? something to hide?

High horse? No, just very frustrated that a minority group can spoil it for everyone. Passionate about it? Yes. Annoyed about it? Yes, Everytime I pay my insurance and car registration (TAC), everytime see the way the media perceive of people who love cars etc etc.

If you want to discuss it like an adult perhaps you could start by answering the question about your referal to "20 over" in the context you did?
And maybe you could comment on what the others were refering to regarding the speed at this event. They didn't choose their words very carefully at all....

Woz

[Guy_Coles]

I've kept out of the this for a number of reasons, but feel that there is a contribution that is valid

1. Don't drive past your comfort zone. Its meant to be fun
2. If you're up my a$$ and want to pass then do it. Don't tail gate me and expect me to go faster to accommodate you which leads into my 3rd point...
3. I WILL NOT go past my limits on the day because you want to past yours. FULL STOP - if I'm too slow for you on a public road, tough sh*t, I won't go to 150 to keep up you but it's my problem. Beep your horn twice so I know and I'll pull over just make it clear on which side you want to pass and when. I'm not prepared to die because you think you want to go faster.
On an disparate note - I drove into hail on Saturday coming back from Bathurst, thinking the black clouds will pass and 30 seconds later at 60k's was all over the place.... Passengers seat full of hail, cuts to forehead. No Panel Damage <Thank goodness>. +30 k's I would have been in a wall and probably dead.
I Hid under a tree instead.
4. If you're not happy with the pace I'd suggest going further back in the group and in front of the back marker <normally lights on>
5. One thing my first track day taught me was how dangerous streets are.
6. The Club makes you sign a "sign on" sheet for a number of reasons, read the reasons and the rules.

Hope this is positive contribution

[Guran]

Just a quick note to advise that the Club has received a formal complaint via email from Brendan and the matter will be discussed at the committee meeting this Wednesday night. A response from the Club will be forthcoming as soon as possible.

The MX-5 Club of NSW already has a Club Run Code of Conduct which is posted as an attachment to all BreakFast Club runs, and is usually also included in the paper handouts at the start of each run. It was also published in the Spring 2011 edition of Club Torque, and will be included in our new website when it is launched in mid-2013. Signing the attendance sheet confirms that the participant has received and will abide by the Code of Conduct.

[Hjt]

Thanks for the summary, we as members and forum contributors do appreciate it.

Warren, I am certain the club will address the issues. Your comments are warranted and I agree on your points made.

As Guy said, track days have enlightened him & myself to the obvious risks we often take.

I myself have had a wheel deteriorate at excessive speed and was lucky to come away un injured, if this occurred in a congo line the results would have made head lines.

[Okibi]

Thanks Guran,

It's obviously a hot topic and i'm grateful for your participation.

[doctor_bob]

Not something to hide, you've got it all backwards; put simply, it is quite easy to level accusations of unpopular behaviour at a [person] / [group of people] which will garner outrage from the outside, as this caters to the mob mentality. In such situations there is a point at which it no longer matters if the accusations are correct, because the mob is busy venting their outrage at a set of ideas and has labeled a [person] / [group of people] as the face of that idea, then proceeds to throw rotten tomatoes at it and call it the devil.

[Sean]

Interesting topic.

Although I'm not a member of any MX5 based club (other than the forum if that counts) I have previously been on the committee and organised more runs than I can remeber and dríven on even more.

I'll be staight up and say some I went on did feel to push the limits, but in saying that I also found the club to be very respectful of the wide range of drivers that were there. Guys (or girls) who wanted to push hard generally organised non-club drives, often midweek evenings, that said I can't honestly say I never sped on a club run, but never what I considered dangerous. Long term members may remember the days of Steve Slammer Lamont as captain of the NSW club - boy could he drive! I also recall the great thunderbolts run weekends, a great road that was fun and even challenging at below the sign posted speed in areas.

Now many of the group were also slower drivers, but back in the day many of us had radio handset we had organised through a club sponsor and from memory the club also had a few to lend out, certainly it was always set up so the front car, tail car and someone in the middle would have contact with eachother to aid in keeping a reasonable pace so as to not sperate the group or loose people (by reasonable I mean safe/accepted, not fast).

Perhaps (assuming you dont anymore) you could re introduce the CBs.

Although I'm not a member I'd hapilly donate a couple of basic hand helds if the club doesn't already have some and feels they'd be a worthy addition to help keep things safer - regardless of speed - they were great to warn about any sorts of hazards.

These days you can get something worth using for less than a tank of premium.

Worth a thought?

[gslender]

Not something to hide, you've got it all backwards; put simply, it is quite easy to level accusations of unpopular behaviour at a [person] / [group of people] which will garner outrage from the outside, as this caters to the mob mentality. In such situations there is a point at which it no longer matters if the accusations are correct, because the mob is busy venting their outrage at a set of ideas and has labeled a [person] / [group of people] as the face of that idea, then proceeds to throw rotten tomatoes at it and call it the devil.

Then don't post on a public forum. In a way, you are standing in the mall, yelling out your posted words. Would you have shouted out these and those words if it were downtown George street for all people (including Police) to hear?

This isn't a private chat amongst best friends.

The situation is poor form, and you are making it worse. Stop.

G

[Guran]

Thanks for the suggestion Sean. Our club already has a collection of UHF CBs for Sydney, Canberra and Hunter Chapters, and just bought several more for Illawarra and RPM (Blue Mountains) Chapters. Mid North Coast will be getting some too. Nearly all of them are 5W units in order to give the range needed for a large group. They were quite useful on the run I did this Sunday when we had one guy take a wrong turn ... three times (no problem, we got him back). Mobile phones with hands free are also used for tracking down those who get seriously lost.

[wozzah1975]

Not something to hide, you've got it all backwards; put simply, it is quite easy to level accusations of unpopular behaviour at a [person] / [group of people] which will garner outrage from the outside, as this caters to the mob mentality. In such situations there is a point at which it no longer matters if the accusations are correct, because the mob is busy venting their outrage at a set of ideas and has labeled a [person] / [group of people] as the face of that idea, then proceeds to throw rotten tomatoes at it and call it the devil.

Yet you can't answer the questions I posed to YOU about YOUR post? Nice attempt to side track with your dribble, I thought you wanted to discuss it maturely?

Accusations? More pointing out self admissions (apart from yours because you're so clever in the way you wrote it, yet you can't answer a straight question about what you were refering to).

Like Gslender said, if you don't want it scrutinised, don't post here.

HJT and Guran, thank you for handling and discussing the thread maturely and I hope you get it sorted

Woz

[doctor_bob]

We can discuss it like adults or you can go on and on like some B grade law movie prosecutor with your weak attempts to corner people with words... I got the distinct impression several posts ago that you don't want to discuss whether there are underlying problems with breakfast club runs at all, certainly not offer any solutions to problems; just feel all high and mighty because you managed to prove to yourself that someone else is a bad person, from that high, high horse of yours

You want to talk about admission of guilt? Let's see, Brendan is complaining about everything everyone else did, but has admitted several times to breaking the exact rules he is complaining about being broken by others; his only justification is that he didn't want to spoil the fun... Not only that but from the position of a Red P Plater he only has to go 5km/h over the limit before being disqualified. If someone who is fully licensed decides to do 10km/h over the posted limit it is a very minor slap on the wrist for them. By the book of the law, and consequences considered, who is really being more irresponsible in that situation? Most of the responses, particularly yours, have really hammered home my own accusations of mob behaviour occurring in this thread.

The hypocrisy lies where Brendan somehow has the right to blame his actions on everyone else present. I say he's responsible for his own actions, but due to his emotive language that is really where this discussion broke down before it began as the mob had already decided he was an innocent victim. Everything I've said in response to the original accusations, if you bother to read it, has been an attempt to boil this down to the version in which firstly, Brendan is no saint, and secondly, the ridiculous exaggerations of criminally fast speeds are not present (not referring to my responses to outside observer fuddy duddies such as yourself; you're not even in the MX5 club right? How does this concern you?)

[lizard]

Well this thread has confirmed my thoughts on car clubs car runs. Been a member of the local volunteer fire brigade I have lost count of the number of call outs we have attended on the Bucketts Way on the weekends where car clubs are involved. Yes I concede it only takes a few idiots to spoil it for the others but every club has its own idiots and driving 20k over the limit puts one into the idiot category and trying to defend ones actions confirmed that person will never change .

[Dweezle]

I am a club member.
Have been for a few years.
I would not go on a long club run ever again until the people that organise them change.

The behaviour i witnessed on the MX2500 a couple of years ago was ugly to say the least.

Upon first arriving at the meeting location i was told by the run organiser that as i was in a NA6 i should always stay at the back as i will not have enough power to keep up with them in NCs and SPs.
I replied with i am quite sure i can do 110 perfectly fine.

Once we got to some country long straight roads it turned into a land speed record.
For example i was doing the posted limit and each meeting point was met with complaints that i was so slow and they had been waiting for ever.
I then questioned when did our cars become all about holding 150+ for as long as possible on a straight road?

Not to mention that at each meeting point i would come across various oddities.
Such as cars pulled up over blind crests side by side on 100 km/h roads having a chat as if the road was closed.


Eventually we hit some windy roads, where it became obvious most had very little driving ability and saw a bunch of drivers using the oncoming lane around blind corners as if they needed it?
I had no issue keeping up as it appeared that their MX5s allk of a sudden became Commodores and could not take corners even close to the posted limits at times but still wanted to use the oncoming lane.


Then their was the bullying other drivers off the road, most towing boats or caravans, forcing a family driving in the oncoming lane to veer off the road as a MX5 was overtaking a truck doing the speed limit on a completely blind hill.
I stopped to make sure they where Ok, and then when i met back up with the group and heard them all whinging about how that truck should have got off the road so they could go past, well i let loose then.
Told them all i was embarrassed and that was the stupidest driving i had ever witnessed.

I never finished the trip with them. I left with my Brother and made our own way back.

I hoped that perhaps the behaviour had changed in all this time but this clearly shows that is not the case.

I really believe it is a matter of time until something major happens.

[Magpie]

My son is a Red P Plater in Queensland and like me is a member of the QLD MX5 Club. On my son's first club run other members took him under their wing and made sure that he enjoyed the run safely (he enjoyed the run) and I enjoyed the run because he was being looked after. I have done other none club runs with him and I always make him follow me as I will not do anything to jepordise his or my licence if we can't keep up then we don't simple. Public roads have rules and it is not worth the risk to break them. Race tracks are for racing however even on the race track there are rules.

I feel that my son is safer on the club run than the general road because if we are traveling on the road together the way he gets treated by other road users is completley different to the way I get treated, for example braking distance, space left when pulling back in after being overtaken. The only difference is my car is blue (and modified) and his is red with P plates and STOCK, they are both MX5 NA6's.

I have no complaints about the way QLD Car Club runs their runs, they encourage the use of radios and even bring spares along for people to borrow, they make sure the group does not get too stretched out and make sure everybody enjoys the run.