it's done, glens turbo results

[glen73]

Thanks ampz, i have excepted that whatever it costs is whatever it costs.
i guess i can still be thankful that anthony is doing my tune. i cant change anything by being angry so i will just look forward to having a turbo mx5, im sure it will all pass pretty quickly when i turn the key for the first time.

[The Pupat]

Think of it this way. You've saved money by DIYing everything else, now you're just spending where it's most important, The Tune (and getting to run sweet).

Yep like ampz said You set it up so that you fire spark into 2 cylinders at once (means you only need 2 coils instead of 4) so you fire one into the power stroke (one that should be receiving spark) and at the same time the other is fired into the cylinder on its exhaust stroke so it's \"wasted\", also means that any unburnt fuel should hopefully be ignited and there by reducing emissions. Problem was instead of alternating spark between each coil it was igniting one coil then both coils.

Ohh and ampz correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the microtech can't fire sequential injection and hence it's always injecting fuel into the intake from every injector. Ohh and fuel only goes in when valves open so I don't understand how it would make it run like a complete pig... just a little one, especially since most older style injection does this anyway.

[glen73]

Think of it this way. You've saved money by DIYing everything else, now you're just spending where it's most important, The Tune (and getting to run sweet).

yes a good way of looking at it.

Ohh and ampz correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the microtech can't fire sequential injection and hence it's always injecting fuel into the intake from every injector. .

it is setup for sequential fire.

[The Pupat]

Injection or ignition?

/edit read the specs

Looks like it can handle sequential injection... but I'd be surprised it that were the reason it runs bad.

[glen73]

Injection or ignition?

/edit read the specs

Looks like it can handle sequential injection... but I'd be surprised it that were the reason it runs bad.

i hope to have an answer soon as to why it ran bad.

i post it for curious minds

[ampz]

Usually with mutli point injection, the injectors are on the runners really close to the inlet ports. The older injection systems usually had twin injectors firing straight after the butterfly valve on the throttle body (cordia turbo, falcon to name 2).

By having an injector so close to the ports, you minimise fuel wastage and you can atomise fuel better due to the velocity of the air (i think).

What i mean by the engine running out of phase is, lets consider cyl 1 is on top dead center and ready to fire, the ecu may think its cyl 2 ready to fire and the spark gets directed there (and to cyl 3), nothing happens because cyl 2 has no petrol in it, however the next cyl to fire is 2, the spark is out of whack so it ignites the coil for 1 and 4, this will fire whatever mixture if remaining in cyl 1, so you have a very retarded spark.

Say 4 cyl engines share 1/4 of the revolution for its firing duties cyls 1 + 4 will have 2 sparks per crank rev, 1 at 0 deg the other at 180 deg, whilst cyls 2 + 3 will have the sparks at 90 deg and 270 respectively.

Now if the firing sequence is out of sync (cas sensor triggering on leading edge and ecu programmed for trailing edge) you will have the sequence of events out by as little as 10 degrees to as much as 30 or 45 degrees, or if you don't take notice like i did on my rodeo once, it was out by a whole 180 degrees

That's just timing the spark. If for example the injectors are squirting out of phase with the valves (cyl 1 squirting on its exhaust stroke) then the fuel will be going straight through the cyl without even getting ignited (i dont think this is the case with you Glen) or worse still, squirting when the valves are closed then the fuel will be dribbling into the cylinder until there is enough in it to ignite (it wont ignite straight away, but i will ignite eventually).

My point is, the cas plays a major part in the tuning of the engine, even if it hasnt been fiddled with in respect to crank timing, it may be giving the ecu a false trigger pattern if the ecu is not programmed to recognise it. For example, if the cas sends a sawtooth wave trigger and the ecu is set for square wave, then it will be out of whack, also it the ecu is waiting for the falling edge of that signal and tdc happens on the rising edge of that signal, then things will be out of whack. I am unsure of how the mx5 triggers, if there is 4 triggers per rev or 2 or more. So all these things need to be considered and fed to the microtech so it can behave the way intended.

As i said before, i have played with ecus, this is a general view only and not gospel by any means, there are a lot more knowledgeable folk out there who will probably correct me as some of what i've written may not be completely correct, but it has worked for me in the past.

Glen, since many have vouched for your tuner's ability, i am sure that when the car gets going, it will be going strong and these little hiccups will seem insignificant 3 corners away from the shop.

sorry about the rant...

[glen73]

yep i'd just like my baby back now. im really looking forward to it and i have even prepaired myself for any outrages bills they come up with (within reason). i'm also really looking forward to see what the problem is. im still putting my money on a value i may have changed in the ecu when i first got the hand controller. i know it must be a timming thing by listening to the motor.

heres a question for anyone out there. normally id wait for a phone call off them when it's ready. do you think i should wait for a call or call them up to see how or if there is any progress since tuesday. keep in mind when i rang them tuesday they hadnt touched it since friday.
i dont like to be pushey.

[jules]

CALL THEM.

Bloody tell them you need the car for the weekend as you are supposed to be going away, and assumed it would be fixed by Thursday latest!

I'm sure the owner would love to get your $1000.00 for the weekends binge!


Jules

[glen73]

i called them friday, turns out they were trying call me lol

they either think its the CAS wiring or maybe one of the banks/coil pack.
it went to the auto elec yesty arvo, he said he hopes to have it up and running by tuesday. told me again that i would be up for an extra $2-300 in auto elec fees. i dont mind these guys now at least there upfront.
so maybe wednesday, thursday.

i told them about me playing with the handcontrol and he said anthony had a look at it when they turned the key. seemed to be ok.

i think they were a bit under the pump last week and in all fairness my car was only booked for a tune. now they have to do all this unexpected work aswell as having another car take up room in there shop untill they can get to it.
i have a good vibe about them now

[glen73]

heres what takes the place of my stereo
left switch is ecu power/ign
right switch is fuel pump


stereo will be fitted into glove box but im not really concerned about it that much right now


before and after shots of the motor

before


after


having anthony tune my car is the biggest thing im looking forward too.
for someone to be flown anywhere to go tune a car pretty much speaks for it self. alot of people have said the ecu is only as good as the tuner.

walking into maztech of melbourne is somthing like walking into a scene from the fast and the furious. there were some pretty decent rides up there.

next thing on my list is a aftermarket clutch.

[The Pupat]

I reckon you'll be needing that clutch, the standard 1.6 (it is a 1.6 isn't it?) one barely hold the stock power output.

Might be worth swapping to the 1.8L clutch and flywheel whilst you are at it also.

[glen73]

:shock:

I reckon you'll be needing that clutch, the standard 1.6 (it is a 1.6 isn't it?) one barely hold the stock power output.

are you refering to na or turbo. either way 100's of people that have used the greddy kit in the states havent changed there clutch on the stock output of the turbo if thats what your refering too? i think the td04 runs betwwen 7-9 pound stock. im not really following what you mean

Might be worth swapping to the 1.8L clutch and flywheel whilst you are at it also.

if i was going to go 1.8 then wouldnt i be better off do it fully ie aftermarket as wouldnt the 1.8 clutch cave in aswell?
the greddy kit in the states doesnt make mention of changing the clutch.
i think alot of things comes down to the driver
if i was to drive it like i stole then yep, the stock clutch wouldnt last 1 day.

[jules]

IMHO the stock 1.6 clutch is utter crap.

When mine goes I will not be putting an OEM unit back in.
They just don't clamp very well.


Jules

[glen73]

i do value everyones opinion here (i would have not got this far without every ones help) it's just my wallet isnt endless.
i only plan on running the stock clutch for a month or so. i normally have a pretty good sense of knowing how hard things like to be pushed.

i hope it doesnt give anthony any trouble on the dyno which is my only concern at the moment.

[jules]

Any news Glen? Have you got the car back yet? or are you just having TOO much fun?


Jules