Mounting 4 point harness

rain902 · Postby **rain902** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:37 am

Cal wrote:
rain902 wrote:oh and what exactly makes brown davis the best roll bars around?

It's not and I don't use them. I have a complete custom job welded it. The BD is well priced and the best option readily available to bolt in. Do you know of a better option?

Cal.

nah - i don't use em either, i have a full custom job as well - i just roll my eyes sometimes coz I see people refer to BD as if it were the only bar on the face of the earth. Some even mistakenly say that the BD is approved by cams. Crap, no ones bars is approved by cams.

In a topic on roll cages earlier this year, someone even said that BD wanted extra $$ for a certification document. pffft! pay extra for a letter saying that they had used reasonable skill when welding? I.dont.think.so!

btw technically just about any bar that can be used in car with the roof up does not meet cams requirements due to the much talked about 50mm rule.

Cal · Postby **Cal** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:41 am

rain902 wrote:btw technically just about any bar that can be used in car with the roof up does not meet cams requirements due to the much talked about 50mm rule.

I can promise you a BD can indeed be CAMS approved.

I have a hardtop on mine and still comply for the 50mm rule. With a Sparco Sprint mounted on flat alloy rails, I fit within the rule. I'm 180cm BTW.

Cal.

rain902 · Postby **rain902** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:03 pm

Cal wrote:
rain902 wrote:btw technically just about any bar that can be used in car with the roof up does not meet cams requirements due to the much talked about 50mm rule.

I can promise you a BD can indeed be CAMS approved.

I have a hardtop on mine and still comply for the 50cm rule. With a Sparco Sprint mounted on flat alloy rails, I fit within the rule. I'm 180cm BTW.

Cal.

mmm alright, let me edit that to include "with factory seats".

rain902 · Postby **rain902** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:25 pm

As for cams approval, let me say that most common half cages comply, not because of individual testing procedures or the brand of manufacture, but purely because of their general compliance with part 6, schedule J of the cams manual of motorsport in both general design (drawings pp6-29:6-35) and construction (including but not limited to materials and construction method)

Should a manufacturer decide to produce a bar that does not look like the pictures in the CAMS manual, or should they wish to make it out of something other than CDS/CDW 350MPa tubing the manufacturer will have to go through the certification procedure as described in part 5 of sched J. THis involves testing by an FIA approved company (i think that there is 2 of them in this country, and about half a dozen in the world) or alternatively a calculation report prepared by an institute appearing on FIA tech list 35 (www.fia.com) demonstrating that the cage withstands the static loads specified. (sched J s 5.4.4.

jeez I rattle that one off like a broken record don't i? yah yah, everyone has heard that from me before :lol:

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:24 pm

let me edit that to include \"with factory seats\".

The seats themselves have nothing to do with it. There are two separate issues in relation to track events requiring CAMS-approved ROPS.

firstly, is the structure (able to be) CAMS-approved?

secondly, where is the driver's head, with helmet, in relation to the top of the bar?

Only when the 'top of the helmet' becomes an issue does the seat enter the equation.

Two cars competed in this year's CAMS NSW Superprint Championships with standard seats, and two with competition seats, all with BD bars. As far as I know, the Type 3 and up cars had non-BD ROPS.

FWIW, I have a bit of paper from CAMS saying my BD is 'approved', or words to that effect.

whoa_dang_96 · Postby **whoa_dang_96** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:40 pm

Just out of curiosity - with the mounting of the eye bolts for no doubt RPM or similar unclippable 4 point harnesses....

Does anyone else encounter a problem where the lower eye bolts (on an NA in my case) retrict the rewards travel of the standard seats ?

Mr Starlet · Postby **Mr Starlet** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:50 pm

Hey, sorry for digging this up but just wondering if harness are street legal? or are they purely for track?...any well branded harness will do? (SCHROTH Rallye 4 http://www.schrothracing.com/products/streetlegal/1575 ) or do they have to be off a specific certified list?

rain902 · Postby **rain902** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:51 pm

Mr Starlet wrote:Hey, sorry for digging this up but just wondering if harness are street legal? or are they purely for track?...any well branded harness will do? (SCHROTH Rallye 4 http://www.schrothracing.com/products/streetlegal/1575 ) or do they have to be off a specific certified list?

if its adr certified and attached to the original mounting points, its street legal.

if its FIA/SFI/E its not ADR compliant, so its not legal.

Mr Starlet · Postby **Mr Starlet** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:17 pm

rain902 wrote:
Mr Starlet wrote:Hey, sorry for digging this up but just wondering if harness are street legal? or are they purely for track?...any well branded harness will do? (SCHROTH Rallye 4 http://www.schrothracing.com/products/streetlegal/1575 ) or do they have to be off a specific certified list?

if its adr certified and attached to the original mounting points, its street legal.

if its FIA/SFI/E its not ADR compliant, so its not legal.

Hmmm...not sure if it's got "ADR" on there, was off an import after all. I do know that this model is street legal in the US and UK and is highly regarded.

rain902 · Postby **rain902** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:25 pm

Mr Starlet wrote:
rain902 wrote:
Mr Starlet wrote:Hey, sorry for digging this up but just wondering if harness are street legal? or are they purely for track?...any well branded harness will do? (SCHROTH Rallye 4 http://www.schrothracing.com/products/streetlegal/1575 ) or do they have to be off a specific certified list?

if its adr certified and attached to the original mounting points, its street legal.

if its FIA/SFI/E its not ADR compliant, so its not legal.

Hmmm...not sure if it's got "ADR" on there, was off an import after all. I do know that this model is street legal in the US and UK and is highly regarded.

if its marked AS2596

or has a statement of compliance with ADR4/01

then its legal. I had to change the belts on my imports to get them to pass engineering exams, so you may find that your belts are rather new - well the seatbelts at least, the harness wouldnt have been in the car when it was inspected I suspect....

If they arent marked as such theres a fair bet that they are illegal :shock:

Li7hium · Postby **Li7hium** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:37 pm

OK, to throw the cat amongst the pigeons....

Is it worthwhile to get a 6 point harness instead of a 4 point harness?

Matt

rain902 · Postby **rain902** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:26 pm

Li7hium wrote:OK, to throw the cat amongst the pigeons....

Is it worthwhile to get a 6 point harness instead of a 4 point harness?

Matt

absolutely. I have a sabelt 3" FIA harness, and i originally got the 4 point version, but then added the 5th point (crotch strap)

ive noticed that the 4 point harnesses ride up my belly a bit, and the $100 for the extra strap makes all the difference in holding the harness in place.

nothing worse than having the buckle bite you on the belly half way round the track!

Li7hium · Postby **Li7hium** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:19 am

Best \"bang for buck\" 6 point harness? Not necessarily cheapest.

Don't like the idea of \"submarining\" in the harness if I am going to get one. I have a Brown Davis rollbar with the eyelet holes drilled in them.

Matt

rain902 · Postby **rain902** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:52 pm

Li7hium wrote:Best "bang for buck" 6 point harness? Not necessarily cheapest.

Don't like the idea of "submarining" in the harness if I am going to get one. I have a Brown Davis rollbar with the eyelet holes drilled in them.

Matt

the fia spec ones all expire after 5 years - this represents a hundred dollars a year on a top name harness. Im fond of the sabelt - if only coz of the latch mechanism. HTe sparcos and schroth have a different latch handle, its a matter of taste i think - although the larger handle on the sabelt could be easier to find - you can do it with a thumb etc whereas the sparco design needs a coupla fingers.

The monza 3" ones are markedly cheaper and apparently conform to the same standards - would I bet my life on it? since i have the sabelt ones, I guess not.

Klippan makes one as well - dont know $$$ but they make bucketloads of OEM seatbelts around the world, we just dont see the brand coz they dont appear in F1 or v8 supertaxis and no one reads the labels on the seatbelts in their camry...

Stay away from the SFI approved ones - these things expire after 2 years, and are generally only used by mud racers as the spoon design of the latch is the only thing that doesnt foul and jam when mud raced.

dont waste your time with a tiny 2" harness - nothing inspires confidence like being held by The Hand of God while scooting through corners. Even sticky tyres dont make you feel as safe