Heel toe vs heel toe double de clutch

[marcusus]

Also when youre gate jumping you have to rev alot harder because the rpms are lower and thats a problem because you have to be blipping for longer and that can affect your brake modulation.

By the same token, you need to rev harder if you heel toe if you're gonna gate jump too.

[marcusus]

Ahhh but you don't have to gate jump with heel and toe because its quick enough.

???
If you're changing from 4th to 2nd is that not gate jumping? So why don't you need to gate jump if you heel toe?

My you are tenacious. Why are you so into ddc other than because it sounds complicated and is a bit smoother, its not a racing technique and you're adamant its the best way.

Why waste a perfectly good argument?

[irwin83r]

whats your fastest time at wakefield marcs?

[marcusus]

whats your fastest time at wakefield marcs?

I got 1:21:29 I think as my best lap at the club day recently.

Surely you've got more to say on the subject than just asking me what my best time was

[irwin83r]

do you want that time to get lower?

[marcusus]

do you want that time to get lower?

Is that a hint as to which side you're on?

[irwin83r]

do you want that time to get lower?

Is that a hint as to which side you're on?

well... i always kinda say if they are faster than you then you should probably listen to them and well i dont know of anyone but truck drivers that double clutch... and they certainly arnt racing.. nore are they exactly newish hightech gearboxs

[marcusus]

I am not a fan of gate jumping and think you should go through the gears sequentially, because that's how they were designed, to stay in the right rev range.

Hence double de clutching coming in handy

So I still suggest to learn how to heel toe the short way and use it on the track.

I'll keep practicing it anyway, just for the sake of it. As mentioned, it never hurt to have another trick under the belt. If I find it more useful on the track I'll use it. Of course that requires another track day for that to happen, but in the meantime, it's back to fully sick driving on the streets

[marcusus]

well... i always kinda say if they are faster than you then you should probably listen to them and well i dont know of anyone but truck drivers that double clutch... and they certainly arnt racing.. nore are they exactly newish hightech gearboxs

Good theory. So what do you do then? Gerard's way I take it?

You just need a better exhaust so you can actually hear it.

It's on the cards after the FM brace is done and dusted. I think I should finish all the suspension works before I start doing power upgrades again.

[irwin83r]

yeah i just plain heel toe.. feels alot quicker and smoother than anyother method ive tried and the engine helps you brake alot more

[marcusus]

the engine helps you brake alot more

That's probably true. Oh well. Will just have to try and test it for myself on the track next time.

[pcmx5]

Interesting thread!!

Probably been said a million times in amongst all this is the need to spend as little time as possible in the situation where there is no drive/braking taking place ie. where that car is unbalanced.

Therfore the less time between gear changes the better and heel/toe means you can brake and change gear at the same time and therefore avoid the \"nothing\" zone in between.

Doing all this on dirt ampilifies the situation and is why many rally drivers take it even further and left foot brake so that they are constantly in a balance between braking/accelerating(ie when braking they still have some acceleration until the car settles and do not take their foot completely off the accelerator, really just vary the pressure)and avoid the \"nothing\" zone.

Must admit I sometimes DDC but really only for the fun, not because I need too!

Peter

[marcusus]

Must admit I sometimes DDC but really only for the fun, not because I need too!

Isn't that why we drive these cars in the first place?

[Spranga]

Must admit I sometimes DDC but really only for the fun, not because I need too!

Isn't that why we drive these cars in the first place?

Ha, ha, still going Marcus! I reckon you will have the last post on this topic. Everyone else will have given up

[marcusus]

I think Marcus is trying to get his post count up, so he can get to "speed racer" the easy way.

Pfft. If I was trying to get my post count up, you'd notice

Seriously though it works. You can downshift without the clutch at all, but you have to be good. If timed right the gear will go straight in as if the clutch was pressed. All you gotta do is when you are slowing down put force on the gear lever blip the throttle hard enough so that it rev matches perfectly, the gear will pop out and when the revs are matched the gear will pop into the next gear down, no clutch at all, that give the left foot nothing to do, so use it to brake! I employ you, try it. You will feel like a retard though, (and look like one when you stab the brakes with your left foot thinking you need to clutch).

I've done it once before in my old Ford laser. It wasn't easy, but it worked. Didn't use the clutch to get the gear out, and didn't use it to get it in. Did it once so I can say I've done it before, but sure as hell not doing it again. Too much precision involved and doubtful that it'll ever serve me well on the track.

To quote him a bit on braking and double clutching. The [] is me.
"A good shift (up or down) should be heard but not felt. It should also be fast - very fast.
[Talks about how rev matching badly (too high or low) snatches the rear tires, markus, its not ok to go slightly over like you keep saying, you have to be spot on, you don't really have time to wait for the revs to drop to let the clutch out if you over blip.]

Of course it's the ideal situation to have the revs exactly where the engine is going in terms of it's speed, but this all comes down to practice. It requires a lot more time on the track to know how much I need to rev the car to before it's a perfect match. On the street I'm a lot more precise, but there are still situations where I over rev purely because I haven't done the changes at those speeds before.

"Many authors (or maybe transplators) who should know better recommend double clutching in the racing car - I'll be damned if I know why. I do not know of one racing driver who double clutches - either up or down.

This all depends on who you know though
That quote is a little too subjective for my liking.