Club Runs and Excessive Speeding

[brendanstacey]

doctor bob, I didnt say anything about excessive speeding at the first stop because I didnt see any as I was left behind half way up the highway. I only thought you were going at or a little above the speed limit of 100km/h on the highway. This is why I agreed to go in the middle of the pack after the first run.

I agree that I could have said something at breakfast at Berry but TBH it didnt cross my mind. I only thought that I shouldve said something on the way home which could only be done via the forums.

[doctor_bob]

Fair enough on both points.

There are a lot of accusations being thrown around here though and as a result I think it is creating a proverbial mountain out of a molehill, not to mention my serious doubts about the extent of some of the speeds and reckless behaviour being mentioned. I did not see on Sunday and have not seen at any other events anyone driving to the point of losing control or putting others in danger. I'd be interested to hear more of Dann's experiences with people taking blind corners on the wrong side of the road, that doesn't sound sensible at all... although he probably won't chime back in on this one after I apparently pissed him off

I hope this doesn't sour your opinion of the club and hope to see you at more events; maybe things can be planned a bit better to accomodate you and others who share similar views with a bit of prior discussion and planning. Certainly nobody was trying to pressure you into doing things you aren't comfortable with - and with that in mind I've only ever seen people bickering on these forums, never at events.

[Apu]

I've been on a few club runs and would share the view that some participants have been reckless and excessive in their speed.

I've organised similar runs in the past with other clubs, and participated in others where we've run up to 200km/h in a pack (not in Australia). Not the smartest thing in hindsight, but we've learnt our lesson when members of the group have caused / been part of accidents.

And that's what happens - most are happy to speed until something goes wrong. What then? Leave a friend behind with his banged-up car? Of course not, everyone hangs around trying to help...and think about a ruined weekend.

The club doesn't have a formal channel to submit such feedback (or at least none that I'm aware of). If there's a run I want to participate in, you'll usually find me at the back of the pack.

The way I see it, I no longer have time nor the interest to participate in the politics of running a club so I go along and adapt to the situation. If I get lost, I'll flick out the GPS and either head for the checkpoint or go home. If I really don't like it, I'll let someone in the group know, and bail out.

That said, to Brendan's point and my first statement - the club should look at someone having responsibility for taking feedback on the runs and acting on it.

[Suspense]

There are a lot of accusations being thrown around here though and as a result I think it is creating a proverbial mountain out of a molehill

There haven't been any accusations as far as I can see. Brendan should be congratulated for speaking up on how he felt, regardless of whether it's via the forum after the event rather than in the heat of the moment where it may have been perceived as overly confrontational that he may not have felt comfortable with (and given the dismissive reaction this thread has elicited, in parts, I think that's entirely reasonable).

[hks_kansei]

That said, to Brendan's point and my first statement - the club should look at someone having responsibility for taking feedback on the runs and acting on it.

Or just be clear from the start.


Does the club condone/tolerate speeding on runs? or doesn't it?

If it does condone/tolerate it, make it known.
If it does not condone/tolerate it, tell those who speed to slow down or go home.

[Guran]

As the President of the MX-5 Club of NSW, I offer the following comments.

This forum is not the place to raise complaints about the club and expect to have them addressed. The club is an incorporated not-for-profit organisation and has formal administrative processes that we're required to work through. Feedback to the club is welcomed and should be sent to any of the email addresses listed in Club Torque and on our website, or mailed to PO Box 402, Beecroft NSW 2119. Members who wish to give feedback are also very welcome to attend our committee meeting - the next one is this Wednesday night from 7:30pm at Ryde-Eastwood Leagues Club. When the committee directly receives a complaint, we will address it.

[doctor_bob]

There are a lot of accusations being thrown around here though and as a result I think it is creating a proverbial mountain out of a molehill

There haven't been any accusations as far as I can see. Brendan should be congratulated for speaking up on how he felt, regardless of whether it's via the forum after the event rather than in the heat of the moment where it may have been perceived as overly confrontational that he may not have felt comfortable with (and given the dismissive reaction this thread has elicited, in parts, I think that's entirely reasonable).

Spence obviously you have some strong opinions here having been nicked pretty severely in the past, I certainly don't envy you for that. I definitely don't have a problem with people voicing their opinions or concerns. The parts I am personally being dismissive over are due to the exaggeration involved as it detracts from the discussion. For starters less than half the run was experienced without slow cars in front holding the group up (ie, 10-20ks UNDER the speed limit, less than that around corners, with sudden unexplained braking at the apex...), so it would be physically impossible for the accusation of us going 30-40k's over the posted limit for the entire run to be true. When dealing with accusations which stray from the facts to try and make a point it's hard to not be dismissive of the hyperbole in rebutting.

Also there are comments made by Brendan about how would never speed at all...except he managed to keep up with the group, which was supposedly going 30-40k's over the entire time... so which is it? Again, hard to have a reasonable conversation on this without dismissing some of the exaggerations.

If we are going to have a serious discussion about this issue facts need to be central to it, and as long as people are exaggerating in order to provide "evidence" to their opinions there will be dismissal on all sides; hence my initial comments about this not being a good place to discuss such problems. It appears Bryan agrees with that point one way or other...

[Motormouse]

Brendan
Whilst you are quite at liberty to express your view, you should maybe relate the facts, not your fictional opinion. Whilst you joined the Breakfast Club run, did you in fact advise the run leader that you were a red "P" plater? You should have, and I believe you did not.
When I suggested that you join in at car 5 it was because you said to me that you were travelling too fast and were afraid that you would lose your licence. I advised you that the speed at that position would be slower which it would have been, and that you alone were responsible for the speed that you travelled at. At no stage did I encourage to speed, nor did I say you would not get caught, only that you would be more protected. I you remember correctly you asked me if you should remove your red "P" plates, I told you not to remove them.
It is not the resposibility of run members to slow down to your legal speed. It is your responsibility to travel at the speed of your choice, as it is with all members of the run.
It is offensive to use the emotive language that you have chosen by branding all run members as reckless. My corner speeds are high, not over the speed limit, the cars are designed to be used that way. Your claim of 30-40 KPH above the speed limit is quite frankly bullshit. whilst I admit at times i exceeded the legal speed limit I did not at any stage exceed 120KPH. My GPS tracker tells me so and there were not many times that it was so. As for your claim of doing 120-130KPH in 60 zones is total fiction.
You really need to keep to the facts, not run off in tangents. Mocking on this forum may make you feel good but does not endear you to others. The same goes for Dann, he too seems to revel in the perceived limelight. Best stick to what you are prepared to do. Others will decide where and what they are going to or are prepared to do.

[brendanstacey]

The run had three checkpoints.

The first one I stayed back and arrived late.

The second one from Picton to Robertson I was in the middle of the pack and yes I did speed alot to keep up. There was no traffic here at all and is where I experienced speeding above the limit without ever going below it because I caught up to traffic or the 5's infront of me.

The third run from Robertson pie shop to Berry I stayed at the back of the back and arrived late.

Without a data logger I guess everything is speculation. I made an assumption based on the avarage speed of the trip based on my time in the pack after the second checkpoint.

[NitroDann]

ƒü¢k I'm back.

It no wonder the club has these issues and that people won't speak up in person.

He is being told to either drive alone or keep up. People Also don't like being told that their na6 won't keep up with the NB and NCs so stay in the slow group.

Bryan, the club president reads this and says hey, come to a meeting with all of these people calling you a liar and voice your opinion. Brendan and everyone here knows full well that discussion like this will make it straight to the top, and yet when it gets there the response is to show up with all of the people driving like this and stand alone, calling them idiots.

Yeah that will happen..

I'm speculating but I imagine that Brendan only asking because of his license is because he didn't want to be belittled further.
I'm a loud mouth with a lot of confidence yet I wouldn't and didn't announce to the whole group that half of its members were being plain stupid.

It's also being discussed here to find out if this behavior is common, which it obviously is.

Want the club to grow? Fix the problems don't make it an old boys club.

Dann

[brendanstacey]

Im getting sick of all this.

I have not seen anything in any run code about advising the leader what licence I have, the only requirement is that I have one. It doesnt make any difference whatsover unless the speed limit is 100, which was a small fraction of the trip.

There is no way the second run was slower after I went in the mid pack. That is a FACT.

I did not specifically say that it was you that said its only about getting caught, I talked to more people besides you.

As for your rant on my emotive language and how you find it offensive, I cant help what way you feel.

Does your gps also log the local speed limit? Can you please send me a file if it does?

Thank You

[wozzah1975]

Whilst I didn't attend this event I have attended many events from other clubs, and have partly managed/organised days like listed here.

There are a number of things I am concerned about with some of the postings here.

A few points speaking from a neutral ground.
- Whether advertised as a "spirited drive", "cruise" or whatever, breaking the road rules is NOT ok, no matter how breifly, no matter if "you're a little bit over" or how many people are in the pack etc etc. Accidents happen, and if as a club you tolerate this behavior you simply shouldn't be a club. Reading between the lines on this topic it would appear there are people who seem to think its ok. It's NOT. This is exactly why car clubs and motoring enthusiasts cop a bad wrap in the public eye, doing the wrong thing in the wrong place, things turn ugly it spoils it for everyone. If you want to drive fast organise a track day.

- If you're a CAMS or otherwise affiliated club IT WILL BE REMOVED by partaking in this activity, FULL STOP.

- Poorly ran events attract people doing the wrong thing, any decent club has rules in place to remove the idiot factor. As a club you should have means to fine them, cancel their membership and remove them from the event, no acceptions. Make it clear in states with hoon laws they will be reported. In my experience if you don't have rules in place at a club level the events attract people you simply don't want there.

- I agree that this should have been taken up with the Club involved first, but having said that it would appear that the OP did raise concerns at the event only to have them snubbed off, handled poorly and unprofessionally. Not a good idea, and this posting could have been avoided had the situation been handled correctly perhaps? I agree that the comment "the entire trip 30-40klm over" may have been over the top, however the simple fact remains that you had a member concerned about the situation and it should have been handled correctly. I would be pretty concerned about this if it were my club been spoken about here. Not a good image guys from anyones perspective.

I know for a fact that there has been CAMS personel read this topic, and I can assure you that it doesn't read well, or give a good image for your events or your club. If you are a commitee member/organiser of the Club/clubs involved I would be considering how serious you want to treat the issue before you post anything back here, and I would be also rethinking about how future events are advertised and organised.

Cheers
Woz

[Motormouse]

Brendan
You made your own choice about how you drove your car. It is your responsibility for your own actions. You must accept that at no time anyone made you do what you yourself did.
Please be civil, it is not becoming acting as you are.
Facts speak louder than fiction. Speak the facts and be listened to. Spruke fiction and get what you deserve.

[wozzah1975]

Brendan
You made your own choice about how you drove your car. It is your responsibility for your own actions. You must accept that at no time anyone made you do what you yourself did.
Please be civil, it is not becoming acting as you are.
Facts speak louder than fiction. Speak the facts and be listened to. Spruke fiction and get what you deserve.

Facts do speak.

You in your last post openly admitted on a public forum to doing up to 120klm on a club run, so Brendan's concerns would appear to be, although possibly exaggerated, correct and warranted. You also posed this question "Whilst you joined the Breakfast Club run, did you in fact advise the run leader that you were a red "P" plater? You should have, and I believe you did not."

What exactly has this question got to do with anything?

Quote Regie
"I have organised and led a few of these spirited Breakfast Club runs

They are labelled as a spirited drive, and the cruiser runs are just what they are.. a cruisier run through some twisty roads

The Run Leader does not go more than 10kmph above the speed limit"

Once again, facts point to the wrong thing being done....

Quote doctor_bob
"As others have said, you might have had a few people willing to cruise along with you at a leisurely pace if anyone had realised how much of a problem you had with the speeds being travelled. I agree with Luke and Regie's comments also, which probably has a bearing on what you experienced. Personally never went more than 20 over at any point (and only brief squirts) and exactly on or under the limit whenever passing through towns"

There's 3 of you now, all admitting to speeding, yet Brendan is in the wrong for staing FACTS supposedly, are you F$*king serious?????

I would pull all your heads in before it's detramental to your club, you look like idiots on this subject

Woz

[Suspense]

Brendan
You made your own choice about how you drove your car. It is your responsibility for your own actions. You must accept that at no time anyone made you do what you yourself did.
Please be civil, it is not becoming acting as you are.

Brendan's concerns aren't about how he drove but rather the speeds of many others when representing the club. See wozzah's post above yours.