Club Runs and Excessive Speeding

[NitroDann]

The club runs have a few mistakes, because they care more about trying to be popular than doing it right.

Something I feel is an issue many clubs have, and I would even say the forum tries that a bit sometimes.

Quality not quantity.

Dann

[davekmoore]

Everyone harden up a bit, and then relax.

Dann

Ommmmm ........

[hks_kansei]

I think the only issue there is CAMS

I think the second there's a competitive aspect written down it suddenly involves a lot of red tape to do (I think the clubs already have to fill out forms etc to CAMS just for a cruise)

[Riffo]

We used to do a lot of these when i lived in america. It might be an idea for something here depending on legalities.

I wouldnt imagine itd be a problem as long as average times were set low enough to not require speeding and stages were set for low traffic roads with any sections where you had to cross high traffic areas to get to "mx5 roads" set as un timed transit stages

Might be fun for people with a competition element while encouraging people to keep to a sane speed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regularity_rally

Obviously it would require a bit more work for recce and time setup with a few cars to go in advance to do timing checkpoints

I think the MG car club do OSTs (observed speed trials) fairly regularly. They must get them to work OK

[Okibi]

If you look at the W.A. Hoon laws you could be hoon law'd for running in a timed event on public roads. You could also be hoon law'd for "racing another car" even if neither of you are breaking the speed limit.

Glad the NSW club has discussed this issue and they're working to improve road safety.

We've never had to deal with a club member admitting on a public forum that they drove up to 20 over while on a club run and dragging the club's reputation through the mud, i'm unsure what our committee would do.

[psquire45]

If you look at the W.A. Hoon laws you could be hoon law'd for running in a timed event on public roads. You could also be hoon law'd for "racing another car" even if neither of you are breaking the speed limit.

Glad the NSW club has discussed this issue and they're working to improve road safety.

We've never had to deal with a club member admitting on a public forum that they drove up to 20 over while on a club run and dragging the club's reputation through the mud, i'm unsure what our committee would do.

hmm. the hoon laws are really quite vague on things like that and dont seem to require you to break the speed limit to be caught under either so that might cause an issue.

might have a look into the mg club ones and see what sort of format etc they do

perhaps it could be "loop holed" by calling it a navigational excersise with cars required to be at certain places at certain times i.e. treasure hunt type style ?

[NitroDann]

NSW hoon laws say that if any timeframe is even considered during a drive then you commit a hoon offense and face up to 9 months in gaol.

And of course its written vaguely, it allows the police to charge whoever they want for anything.

Dann

[psquire45]

40. Races, attempts on speed records and other speed trials
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/ ... 2/s40.html
41. Conduct associated with road and drag racing and other activities
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/ ... 2/s41.html

so these are the two sections of the road transport safety act that would apply.

i had a quick skim through them and didnt see anything that would DEFINATELY prevent something like this as the drivers arent timed for whos fastest rather they are timed to whos most accurate at keeping the average speed ( for example on a twisty road with a 60kmh speed limit the average speed might be set to say 45kmh).

obviously however proper legal advice from nsw police or cams would be required to continue further with it.

but imho ( uninformed and certainly not a lawyer or police officer) as long as the times in and out of sections ( avoiding the word stages ) were set in such a manner that wouldn't require speeding or driving in a dangerous manner. legally it really shouldn't be any different to telling a mate youll be at his house in 15minutes to pick him up and drive to the pub 15 minutes later ( provided you didnt factor in 5 hours at the pub and the driver home however thats a whole different legal problem)

[NitroDann]

It doesn't make any difference how you interpreted it. It's written to allow many interpretations.

Dann

[davekmoore]

Would sticking at or under the speed limit (or a lower speed to suit the conditions) be the simplest solution?

[NitroDann]

That HAS to be done regardless, however it doesnt change the fact that any timing of driving in NSW is a hoon offence and is punishable by gaol.

Dann

[NitroDann]

Look there are things the club can and cannot do.

My suggestions would be

Make a particular road the destination.

Do a recky run down the road so everyone knows the layout and how sensible they should be in the conditions.

If you want more spirited driving do a few laps of the road.

Smaller groups.

Perhaps break the group into lots of 10, split up by an hour or more.

Ban people who are seen being retarded, like driving on the wrong side of the road.

Do club runs outside of peak hour on popular roads.

Dann

[zero00]

If you look at the W.A. Hoon laws you could be hoon law'd for running in a timed event on public roads. You could also be hoon law'd for "racing another car" even if neither of you are breaking the speed limit.

Glad the NSW club has discussed this issue and they're working to improve road safety.

We've never had to deal with a club member admitting on a public forum that they drove up to 20 over while on a club run and dragging the club's reputation through the mud, i'm unsure what our committee would do.

hmm. the hoon laws are really quite vague on things like that and dont seem to require you to break the speed limit to be caught under either so that might cause an issue.

might have a look into the mg club ones and see what sort of format etc they do

perhaps it could be "loop holed" by calling it a navigational excersise with cars required to be at certain places at certain times i.e. treasure hunt type style ?

The 'key word' there is 'timed' - that changes it totally in the eyes of CAMS - you can have 'navigational' but the moment 'times' are introduced it effectively changes it in the eyes of CAMS

[NitroDann]

Loop holes do not work in your favour.

Stop kidding yourself, the legal systems job is to punish as many people as possible, thats what its here for. Thats how it measures its own success. Its a huge boys club and you aren't in it.

Dann

[manga_blue]

I think you're all off in Dreamland.

The problem lies with promoting a 'spirited' run. If there's a bad accident involving a non-participant then any half decent public prosecutor would have no trouble persuading the court that 'spirited' is a code word for reckless or dangerous driving and that the event was organised for that purpose. This would escalate the charges from negligent or dangerous drive to grievous bodily harm and manslaughter levels. The police would probably go after the organisers for conspiring to commit the crime. Up to 10 years for the drivers involved, up to 5 for the organisers. Don't know if the police would go for the sponsoring club, but the reputation damage would be extreme and the victims or their families would go for the drivers, organisers and club for damages because the CTP insurer will have a good case not to cover it.

Fixed:

Three types of runs.
1. Sight seeing
2. Cruise
3. There is no type 3

edit: replaced TPPD with CTP (green slip)