A wee bit scary

[Mr Morlock]

Its amazing that we still think we can convince Dupain of anything. The guy claims to be a degree in Chemistry but the latter profession is about people who are good at analysis and maths/ science. He also evades commenting on what he does for a living or whether he has actually worked in manufacturing and perhaps seen it from the inside i.e. design, specs, tooling, r&D , testing ,production etc. Its clear to me he does not have any real experience in at all.

A comment like having the right specs is fine but what is the process in validating these things and what documentation has to be submitted etc. A spec for a plastic does not mean very much unless there is a process a certification and an inspection for verification. Cos like Toyota or Mazda will not deal with co's they cannot trust and who do not have the required certification. A company copying some else's product and using that Brand name by its very actions tell you that they are not to be trusted.

[hks_kansei]

Would you take a pill with the Sigma Pharmaceuticals logo on it if you knew it wasn't made by Sigma (or a manufacturer approved by Sigma)

How do you know that the pill isn't simply a placebo and another company is wanting to make some quick cash on Sigma's name?
How do you know it's safe?

Or would you be ok with it because they probably just copied Sigma's recipe and I guess that means it's the same....
Because when it comes to counterfeit products it's completely unheard of that a business would ever cut corners from the original product in order to reduce costs.

After all, if a few people die from it it's not your name ruined, you just start pressing someone elses logo into it and you're right to go again.

[hks_kansei]

Knock off Viagra are safe and work very well.

But without knowing the manufacturer how can people be sure that they all are?
If they are counterfeiting the product they won't have their own name stamped on them (for reasons you have said) so how does the consumer tell if they are getting a very good counterfeit that's 99% the same as the genuine, or if they're getting something that some black market dodgy guys are making from whatever is cheap, be it safe or not.

I mentioned about Chinese culture in the thread earlier. Even if a company produces a brake kit to the same specs as Brembo and validated/certified and at 1/3 the price of Brembos - they won't sell unless you put the logo/colour on. That's how their culture works.

Here's the main issue people have, it's often difficult to get details from these businesses as to if they process has been completed, and even when it has been, many nations have different levels of what they deem safe.

Even in Australia it's a little like that between states, for example when Chery cars were released here they weren't able to be sold in Victoria because they lacked stability control (or something along those lines)
you could easily buy them in QLD though.

The counterfeit Brembos may well have passed safety requirements, but those requirements may be pretyt low depending on how strict China is in that regard.

[Mr Morlock]

More claptrap from Dupain- whats this about lazing about doing nothing. Didn't Dupain say he was on a work conference ( contradiction here???) i.e. the silly thread about 3200KM in a week. He does not read - I already provided the story of brakes for the VW- was that too difficult to understand. We rubbish products that are cheap counterfeits because there is ample evidence that products are inferior. The watch story was an example.

PS for HKS- the brakes with a Brembo name on them made as a counterfeit will not be certified ( illegal to use the brand) and they will not be sold in any reputable business e.g. Bursons.

As for drugs our market is highly regulated and whilst we buy generics they are tightly controlled. Its a red herring anyway.

[project.r.racing]

I've got passive businesses Mr Morlock. Don't have to work much. Hour or two a day at most.

Why buy sh!t on ebay then. Buy proper proven products that you know will give you good gains.

[Odd]

Wasn't it the Chinese that killed a few babies because they added melamine to baby formula?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

Good Luck with the Viagra!

[taminga16]

The bullies on this thread, do you actually drive/ mod your cars? Or just park it and talk shiit all day on the forum?
Dupain. WTH.
"Built Mercke's plant in Granville".
Dupain. MORE.
That must have taken a while, and to think that you would have dríven past their signage every day and you still cannot get the spelling right, it's MERCK!
Tidy up on the facts Dupain. (Is that an oxymoron?)

"Never argue with a fool, they will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".
Greg.

[project.r.racing]

Chinese Mothers Risk Arrest For Buying Safe Baby Formula
Comment Now Follow Comments Following Comments Unfollow Comments
By Roger Bate

Chinese mothers are risking arrest by illegally bringing bulk quantities of foreign infant milk formula into China from Hong Kong and further afield. The demand for foreign formula is so high that retailers in UK and other countries are rationing sales in order to prevent shortages.

In the past decade major problems with Chinese-made food and drugs has led to thousands of deaths, mostly in China itself, but many in rich countries too, including at least 150 deaths in the U.S. from counterfeits of the drug heparin. And while fake drugs are the largest concern for foreigners, within China the greatest fear is over milk formula. Sometimes contaminated with hormones and industrial chemicals, emergency rooms have routinely been inundated with parents and their newborns with nasty reactions to dangerous formula.

In 2008 the worst single incident led to 6 deaths and 300,000 infants affected. The Chinese company Sanlu had illegally added the chemical melamine to diluted milk products to falsely boost protein levels. While the company was sanctioned by the state, consumers had no standing to get redress in court. Comedians in Hong Kong joked that “Made in China” should come with a skull and crossbones warning.

But problems continue. In the past year three different Chinese companies, Mengniu, Ava Dairy and Yili group have run into problems. The first two recalled baby formula containing high amounts of aflatoxin, a fungal carcinogen probably introduced via the feed for cows. And Yili issued a recall of its formula due to high mercury contamination.

Yet Chinese mothers rarely breast feed, concerned that the quality of their breast milk is poor. And even with all the formula scares, which are increasingly covered in the Chinese press, breast feeding remains unpopular.

At baby showers in America, expectant mothers coo over cute onesies, baby sunglasses and cuddly toys, in China the most valued gift is imported milk formula. The shower participants will be eager to hear the provenance of the formula and how they may procure some. Attentive listeners hope to learn how to procure formula without alerting Chinese authorities, which frown on the practice.

The first port of call for most Chinese parents was Hong Kong. Massive demand in Hong Kong for imported formula led to unusual reactions from that bastion of free trade. Under pressure from Beijing, Hong Kong authorities prevented all customers from purchasing more than two cans of formula a day. Rule breakers face up to two years in prison and a $64,500 fine.

Chinese parents then turned attention to Japanese formula. Many Chinese have a relative who studies in Japan, and hence they have considerable opportunities for direct importation. But with the Fukushima nuclear disaster in 2011 rumors spread of radioactive contamination of many Japanese products. Most of these were unfounded, but to already concerned parents, they started to look further afield. This move was reinforced by heightening political tension between Japan and China, over sovereignty of several islands, meaning that Chinese officials became more likely to inspect personal imports from Japan.

The resulting demand outside of Asia therefore increased. Rather than allowing prices to rise, retailers in Australia and the UK followed Hong Kong’s lead, limiting the number of cans of formula sold to a customer within a single day. Chinese retailers are taking advantage. A can of powder typically costs about $23 in Europe and US, but sells for over $43 on Taobao, a popular online Chinese retailer.

But with many Chinese families only having one child, the consensus across China’s affluent urbanites appears to be that if there is only a tiny chance that Chinese formula is not safe, no parents want to take that risk.

The Chinese Government says it will act on the problem but with no details parents have not been calmed. And one drug investigator told me privately that criminals have started to take advantage by faking foreign milk formula labels. More infant deaths are likely in the future he predicts.

Until Chinese citizens have stronger rights to sue companies making fake and substandard products the situation is only likely to worsen.

Roger Bate is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and author of Phake the deadly world of falsified and substandard medicines.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/20 ... y-formula/

Even the Chinese dont want their own product...

[project.r.racing]

I've got passive businesses Mr Morlock. Don't have to work much. Hour or two a day at most.

Why buy sh!t on ebay then. Buy proper proven products that you know will give you good gains.

I never said I was buying these. The argument put forward was brakes are brakes - what has changed in the last 10 years. It's not like they are painting the rotors black and saying they are carbon composite. Knock offs these days are superbly made was the point I'm making. Like fake wheels 10 years ago and now they are accepted as the norm.

Referring to curly headers.

[Okibi]

This isn't a hairdressing forum.

[tbro]

This isn't a hairdressing forum.

ITS NOT so all that rubbed in oil wasn't for oh dear!!!!!

[project.r.racing]

This isn't a hairdressing forum.

MX5? C'mon?

[Pamex]

I've got passive businesses Mr Morlock. Don't have to work much. Hour or two a day at most.

Why buy sh!t on ebay then. Buy proper proven products that you know will give you good gains.

I never said I was buying these. The argument put forward was brakes are brakes - what has changed in the last 10 years. It's not like they are painting the rotors black and saying they are carbon composite. Knock offs these days are superbly made was the point I'm making. Like fake wheels 10 years ago and now they are accepted as the norm.

I work with Chinese aftermarket items each day. Fitment is never correct, tolerances are always off. Materials can be inferior.

As someone who works with knock offs and aftermarket components every single day, they are far from superbly made.

[jimmy_vee]

[deviant]

Nobody ever really researches the source of their parts. Most people go on a forum, sees everyone talking about a particular mod to do or a particular product so they just go and buy it without a thought. There are plenty of parts in use by people on this forum that were bought without questioning the source or manufacturing quality...I guess it was just assumed that as they are being resold by a local company or that as everyone has one that it would be okay. I include myself in this on some products.

I do not really have an opinion as such on these Brembo copies however when you have a look around you can find dozens of manufacturers of shiny, multi piston brake calipers with posh looking discs for a price below what you would pay for the big name brakes. Often people that buy this stuff find that Brembo, Alcon, AP etc pads and spares all fit...because those guys all use pattern parts anyway! Plenty of manufacturers are using existing pattern part designs, my first MX5 had some mental 10 pot calipers on it from the previous owner, turns out they are exactly the same as some european commercial vehicle and they are essentially machined to a nice finish and anodised for the shiny factor which is also how they end up on some performance cars as an OEM fit.

Anyway it is interesting to have a look and see just how much everyone is copying everyone else and using pattern designs. Look at the similarities between G4, D2, Ksport, JBT, Yellowspeed, Tarox, Wilwood, HiSpec, Brembo, Alcon, AP, JDM Y0! etc etc and try and figure out what is going on!

I guess I do have a bit of an opinion on these Brembo copies actually. If they were given their own brand name and were onsold through established businesses people would snap them up and either the manufacturer would keep the quality to a standard to keep the sales coming or they would decide the returns and complaints from the resellers are not worth it and will move on to making something else. As it stands they are just trying to sneak a cheap product in to the market to turn a dollar with nothing to force them to build to a standard, you might be getting an EXACT copy that works perfectly or you might be getting a caliper made of the shittiest slag from the local smelting works that had the casting dags filed off and a lick of paint sprayed on it. Until someone buys a set to see we just don't know.