December club track day

[Charlie Brown]

Another good track day. Thanks to all those officials who put in the time to make it as good as it can be.

Congratulations to those who did put down PB’s. I feel on another day with a better track surface you would will do a lot better. Most people found that putting down a good time was very hard. I could only get within a second of my previous best with a 1:10.02.
When I got home and pulled off the wheels, I found for the first time I hadn’t picked up any rubber off the track surface and there was no rubber stuck on the inside of the rims. Something that has never happened to me since using R Specs.

With regards to the group format, I’m more than happy with the 6 minute session for 12 cars but in a 14 car group, 5 laps should be the minimum for all in the group.
I too had the flag hung out just as I approached the start finish line in the first session to complete just four timed laps. And I started at number 7 in the group!
I made sure it didn’t happen again by eliminating warm up of the brakes and tyres but those further back must have had their session cut short every time.

Next, there’s no way we should go to a 10 or 15 minute session. Sounds great but at Wakefield the wear and tear on tyres and pads would have every one complaining by the end of the day. If you’re running a turbo, well half the time you’re not using at full throttle because of overheating problems, etc., etc. Better off having more 5 lap sessions with less waiting time between starts.

Check your lap times and see which is your quickest lap in each session. In most cases it will be lap 3 or 4. Lap 5 will most probably be slower than 4 as tyres and brakes start to overheat and driver concentration starts to wane.

[badface]

I agree that the sessions should be kept short with 12 people in the group. Car would definitely suffer out there any longer in the summer months.

[manga_blue]

Check your lap times and see which is your quickest lap in each session. In most cases it will be lap 3 or 4. Lap 5 will most probably be slower than 4 as tyres and brakes start to overheat and driver concentration starts to wane.

We culd go on forever with this argument until someone in NSW actually tries longer sessions. Until then it's just all conjecture for NSW drivers. Vic AROCA/MX5 events at Winton, which is reasonably similar to Wakefield, now have 12-15 minute sessions of up to 28 cars. There you'll typically find they do best times around the 5-7 lap mark because they have time to bring the car and driver up to their best and they can organise space for a quick one. If you discount nasty Sandown then I suspect that the "off" rate is lower in Vic too because they're not in such a rush to get going fast before they're settled. The mad scramble in the first lap or two shocked me when I first moved back into NSW.

If we're talking about just seat time then I burn about 50L at a Vic AROCA event, about 25L at an MX5 NSW club event and, the only two times I went to one, less than 5L at an NSRRRC event.

I strongly disagree with the protests that the cars can't take longer sessions either. They do in Vic and we know that standard and modified cars run perfectly well for 2 hours in the 6 hour events. If your car can't last past 6 minutes then you need to build it better, not try to limit the time for everyone else. Alternatively we cold set aside special shorter runs for those who want them.

[Apu]

Agree with you manga blue! I run with Circuit Club quite regularly and 10-15 minute sessions are fine.

The thing with a 6 minute session is that if you come up against traffic (most likely in lap 4 or 5) or make a mistake, that is the whole session gone. With a 10 minute session, you still have a second chance to try for a good lap.

[david_syd_au]

But longer sessions mean a longer time between runs, and also more potential problems with traffic and overtaking.
The traffic may be ok for experienced drivers, but can be an issue for the less experienced. Doubling the session times means something close to doubling the time between runs. Waiting say 40 mins between runs is acceptable for me, 1:20 is not.
The NSW track day process is intended to keep the cycle time short, and to reduce potential on-track congestion.
Other track day organisers may run less groups, but if the MX-5 Club did that it would mean higher entry fees, and more people who miss a spot.

[manga_blue]

AROCA run with 120 entries and I found the traffic better. It's always because, because, because.

As I recall this started with AROCA at Winton about 8 years ago. I was standing near Neil and Stuart and they were talking about trying longer sessions. Neil just walked out to the next group lined up and asked if anybody minded doing a long, like 15 minute, session. All agreed and it happened. Everyone came in and said it was much better so from there they started playing around with longer runs more and more until they now have that 15 minute standard for timed sessions at Winton.

http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/ind ... tach=28372

[Apu]

But longer sessions mean a longer time between runs, and also more potential problems with traffic and overtaking.
The traffic may be ok for experienced drivers, but can be an issue for the less experienced. Doubling the session times means something close to doubling the time between runs. Waiting say 40 mins between runs is acceptable for me, 1:20 is not.
The NSW track day process is intended to keep the cycle time short, and to reduce potential on-track congestion.
Other track day organisers may run less groups, but if the MX-5 Club did that it would mean higher entry fees, and more people who miss a spot.

It can't be viewed in isolation David. Circuit Club runs 10-15 minutes but they only about 60-70 drivers tops. Wait times still work out to be about the same...at least, it doesn't feel longer.

At the same time, the track marshalls don't have to work quite as furiously as well. I look at the poor guys...it's literally get one group together, line them up, get the cars out, repeat.

[A.Chen89]

Completely agree with Apu, the longer sessions at Circuit Club work well.

[Blesif]

Can I just say thanks to GSU for taking all those beaut pics at Wakefield on Sunday and getting them up on Photobucket for us all to see - link on page 5 of this topic. I know that Greg will be entering his recently acquired NB8A for February 8 so there will be no more photography - at least on Club track days.

[hamx5ter]

Out of curiosity, I had a look at my RaceChrono lap times (from a while ago ) for both club days (5-6 laps / session) as well as SOTS (11-12 laps / session), and interestingly, regardless of the number of laps / session, I tended to do the best time of the session on the 4th lap...

There was only this one time where the fastest time was on the last lap (of 14).. 13:40. That said, you'd clearly see the first 5 laps in the mid-13s, then a whole lot of traffic I assume, as the times fell to 14x - 18s and then again a clear shot, and a quick finish. I would imagine it wouldn't have been much fun for 9 out of 14 laps sitting behind traffic.

Also, on another session of 15 laps, fastest time was set on lap 2 (assuming 1st lap was spent on warm up).. The rest of the session didn't get within 2 seconds of it..

I do remember getting quite bored with the longer sessions, esp, if I didn't have a clear run.. and tending to fall back into a methodical frame of mind, rather than just fanging it.. not complaining as it all builds up consistency well in the end, but at least in terms of best times, for me, it's the 4th lap.

If one of the main complaints is that people in the second half of the group don't get the full 6 minutes, can't there be an extra minute added to the session? either only for the second half of the group, or just so everyone gets 6 laps? the quicker ones will get more laps, but hey, that's life for ya...

[david_syd_au]

The club trackdays are run to a formula developed over more than 10 years which caters to the majority of club members who want to drive at track days. There may be some who consider the sessions too short, but I am confident there are also a few that would like them shorter.
Could we do some things better .... yes, of course.
Should we try new things ..... yes, but only after proper consideration and discussion.
So, if you are serious about new ideas being considered, get involved in the organising committee and then help organise and plan future track days to benefit all MX-5 Club members.

[Apu]

Come on David, not everyone can join the committee and be productive in it, and it doesn't make sense to have to join a committee just to so we can provide feedback.

I get that the formula has been developed over many years, but at the same time I remember there weren't as many participants at trackdays 3 years ago.

[david_syd_au]

Come on David, not everyone can join the committee and be productive in it, and it doesn't make sense to have to join a committee just to so we can provide feedback.

I get that the formula has been developed over many years, but at the same time I remember there weren't as many participants at trackdays 3 years ago.

No worries Bryan.
Your feedback has been received, I will pass it on the the appropriate people and give you feedback on the outcomes.

[PeterB]

Great photos thanks. A bit scary to see the body roll on my stock Gold NB8A compared to my previous track prepared NA6. Proves I need to sort out the turn in.

David

I am happy with the 6 minute format (or maybe 7 minutes if you want to ensure equal laps for all), but with 14 in Group 3 I was being caught.

I find my tyres go off after 4 or 5 laps anyway, so extra time would just mean slower times, or to have to back off and cool them then to go again, meaning you are caught and overtaken.

I would not want to go to a 12 or 15 minute session. I think the current format is a good compromise for the mix of experienced and in-experienced drivers in the wide variety of cars, and allows reasonable turn around times.

[Apu]

Thanks David.