NA8 brake upgrade path.

[RileyR]

So once again I am seeking any expert opinions - this time on brake upgrades for my NA8. I have been doing some googling and have spoken to my mechanic (also a bit of a racer) but I still have some questions.

What has brought about the idea of a brake upgrade? Well its due for the brake fluid to be replaced, which got me thinking about upgrading the brakes. It has been suggested to me that I get some braided lines, good pads and then slotted rotors - in that order as an upgrade path. I do some autocross, motorkhanas and sprints. But maybe most importantly I am hoping to turbo it one day.

Considering that I have an NA8 I have slightly better brakes than the NA6 and I know plenty of people have upgraded their NA6 brakes to NA8 brakes. I think I would be more than happy with braided lines, slotted rotors and good pads UNTIL it comes time to turbo it.

Will the stock NA8 brakes, with braided lines, good pads and slotted rotors be OK with a turbo? Will I need bigger brakes to keep the car road legal? I am running 15x8 +20 Widened steelies at the moment, so if I am looking at getting some bigger calipers (like willwood etc) i might have to look at new wheels for the calipers to fit = a large amount of $ all up.

Im hoping people say to stick with stock brakes and just upgrade the lines, rotors and pads

[hks_kansei]

THere's a lot of MX5 racecars out there running NA8/NB8A brakes with no issues.
So that should give you an idea of what they're like.

A set of good pads, and some decent fluid should be plenty.
New lines would help if the ones on there are a bit old and shitty.

I'd just ask myself what parts of the braking system have I felt need improvement? do you find you're boiling fluid often? glazing pads? spongy pedal?
After you've listed them, look into what fixes them and do that.

Bear in mind that for Motorkhana and AUtocross you'll be wanting a brake pad that can grab well when stone cold.
Where on the track you'll be wanting ones that can still grab when hot.



If I were me i'd be getting moderately high temp pads for the front (like EBC greenstuff or similar) and use OEM on the rears (grabs from cold - good for handbrakes in motorkhana).
In saying that, I don't do trackdays, youre needs might be completely different.

[Magpie]

Stick with stock brakes and just upgrade the lines, rotors and pads!

However, get the stock brakes overhauled/rebuilt too make sure everything is working. If using them hard make sure you grease the sliders (with proper brake grease) often.

A good pad combination is Winmax W5's on the front and W3's on the rear for track or W3's if street only. Rotor wise OEM's do quite well just keep an eye on the min thickness, DBA T3's may be an overkill.

Consider some ducting to the brakes, however if you can get hold of some thermo paint you can monitor the rotor temps and make decisions accordingly.

Consider the type of brake fluid and again this will need to be monitored based on your use. Learn to reconise the difference in fluid fade, pad fade and pad knockback these will all help you make decisions on your brakes.

This is a very good read http://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/anyone-have-any-brake-questions-81577/#post1177465

I'm running NB8B calipers, NB8B proportioning valve, NA6 booster/master, DBA T3 rotors and Winmax W5/W3 combo. However switching to W6.5/W3 combo to give more bite to the front.

[RileyR]

Just what I wanted to hear! thanks for the info!

THere's a lot of MX5 racecars out there running NA8/NB8A brakes with no issues.
So that should give you an idea of what they're like.

A set of good pads, and some decent fluid should be plenty.
New lines would help if the ones on there are a bit old and shitty.

I'd just ask myself what parts of the braking system have I felt need improvement? do you find you're boiling fluid often? glazing pads? spongy pedal?
After you've listed them, look into what fixes them and do that.

Bear in mind that for Motorkhana and AUtocross you'll be wanting a brake pad that can grab well when stone cold.
Where on the track you'll be wanting ones that can still grab when hot.



If I were me i'd be getting moderately high temp pads for the front (like EBC greenstuff or similar) and use OEM on the rears (grabs from cold - good for handbrakes in motorkhana).
In saying that, I don't do trackdays, youre needs might be completely different.

The brakes started to smell a bit after some dirt sprints last weekend, but apart from that I am just looking for a bit of an upgrade to handle the extra work they are doing now, and to improve lap times and braking. Very good point about getting pads that will work cold. I don't think i will be doing a great deal of longer track type events - mostly just quick sprints or autocross etc.

Stick with stock brakes and just upgrade the lines, rotors and pads!

However, get the stock brakes overhauled/rebuilt too make sure everything is working. If using them hard make sure you grease the sliders (with proper brake grease) often.

A good pad combination is Winmax W5's on the front and W3's on the rear for track or W3's if street only. Rotor wise OEM's do quite well just keep an eye on the min thickness, DBA T3's may be an overkill.

Consider some ducting to the brakes, however if you can get hold of some thermo paint you can monitor the rotor temps and make decisions accordingly.

Consider the type of brake fluid and again this will need to be monitored based on your use. Learn to reconise the difference in fluid fade, pad fade and pad knockback these will all help you make decisions on your brakes.

This is a very good read http://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/anyone-have-any-brake-questions-81577/#post1177465

I'm running NB8B calipers, NB8B proportioning valve, NA6 booster/master, DBA T3 rotors and Winmax W5/W3 combo. However switching to W6.5/W3 combo to give more bite to the front.

Thanks, ill get the brakes fully checked out. I dont want to personally pull them apart as im a bit of a novice :/
Good to hear that the oem rotors are ok.

I'll get some braided lines and some good fluid for the moment. There is still some descent meat on the brake pads so ill upgrade them when they go I think.

[madjak]

NA8 brakes are fine for 95% of motorsport events. Also, unless your doing multiple runs on a race track you don't need a race pad. You really are looking for a high friction pad that will start working from cold, which is a little hard to find.

My suggestion:

1) Remove proportioning valve (Check your brakes carefully if you are doing this to make sure you're not getting to much rear) or install a Wilwood adjustable one (this would be preferred if you are driving the car on the road). Whilst doing this flush your entire brake lines and put in fresh Dot 4 fluid.

2) Install SS braided lines. This is more for better pedal feel and to replace 20-year-old rubber lines for safety.

3) For your usage I think get autocross grade pads, ie basically aggressive street pads.

You don't need slotted or drilled rotors and unless your doing 2+ laps on the track at pace you don't really need race pads or bigger rotors. Also the stock caliper is fine for most usage. My suggestion is to do the steps above first and if you find your still searching for more brake, and only then look into more serious calipers, larger rotors and more expensive pads.

I've just done a major upgrade from stock NA6 brakes running full race pads (Ferodo DS3000) to 11.75" wilwood front rotors and calipers and 11.44" wilwood rear rotors and on the track I'm now braking only slightly later than the stock NA6. So the stock NA6 brakes can work fine in the right scenario and the right pad choice. The pads I was running were useless when cold so in autocrosses I was locking brakes and struggling for the first half of the course. The only downside was that I went through a set of pads and rotors in less than a year. I upgraded because I needed better performance from cold due to the mixture of events I'm doing (some track, hillclimb, sprint and autocross events)

With the bigger brakes I'm getting much better feel and control and also not chewing through rotors and pads but for the $ spent you don't get that much better braking, especially if you choose the right pad for your events. Also to benefit from the bigger brakes you really need to be running very sticky tyres.

[RileyR]

NA8 brakes are fine for 95% of motorsport events. Also, unless your doing multiple runs on a race track you don't need a race pad. You really are looking for a high friction pad that will start working from cold, which is a little hard to find.

My suggestion:

1) Remove proportioning valve (Check your brakes carefully if you are doing this to make sure you're not getting to much rear) or install a Wilwood adjustable one (this would be preferred if you are driving the car on the road). Whilst doing this flush your entire brake lines and put in fresh Dot 4 fluid.

2) Install SS braided lines. This is more for better pedal feel and to replace 20-year-old rubber lines for safety.

3) For your usage I think get autocross grade pads, ie basically aggressive street pads.

You don't need slotted or drilled rotors and unless your doing 2+ laps on the track at pace you don't really need race pads or bigger rotors. Also the stock caliper is fine for most usage. My suggestion is to do the steps above first and if you find your still searching for more brake, and only then look into more serious calipers, larger rotors and more expensive pads.

I've just done a major upgrade from stock NA6 brakes running full race pads (Ferodo DS3000) to 11.75" wilwood front rotors and calipers and 11.44" wilwood rear rotors and on the track I'm now braking only slightly later than the stock NA6. So the stock NA6 brakes can work fine in the right scenario and the right pad choice. The pads I was running were useless when cold so in autocrosses I was locking brakes and struggling for the first half of the course. The only downside was that I went through a set of pads and rotors in less than a year. I upgraded because I needed better performance from cold due to the mixture of events I'm doing (some track, hillclimb, sprint and autocross events)

With the bigger brakes I'm getting much better feel and control and also not chewing through rotors and pads but for the $ spent you don't get that much better braking, especially if you choose the right pad for your events. Also to benefit from the bigger brakes you really need to be running very sticky tyres.

Thanks, they don't look too expensive as im guessing I could get away with the top one here? (http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/ ... alves.aspx). Are you suggesting I put a bit more bias to the rear to spread the load? They look fairly simple to install, maybe not a big increase in labour? Or am I kidding myself?

[Magpie]

The manual bias valve allows you to vary the brake pressue to the rear wheels. Under very hard braking the weight is transfered to the rear wheels and hebce the amount of brake torque required at the rear is reduced. If the rears lock up too early then you cannot exploit the full braking potential of the car. In a perfect setup you want the fronts to lock up just before the rears.

You can make changes to the cars setup to slow down weight transfer to the front or install a more agressive pad at the front instead of the manual bias valve.

I would do what others have said and get the brakes working as best as possible then start fine tuning. It is much better to start at a known point (new fluid, braided lines, rebuilt calipers/master/booster/proportioning valve) when making changes.

[RileyR]

Ah ok so with the valve i would be wanting to take some braking from the rear to make sure the rear doesnt lock up before the front. Thanks for the info

1996 BRG NA8

[madjak]

The Wilwood proportioning valve is a very simple installation. When I had the NA6 brakes I found I had it open 100% and I still didn't get enough rear brake. Adding the valve will add some restriction to the rear line even at 100% open which is why I mentioned that most NA6 and NA8 cars a full open connection is fine. But for a street car I'd prefer some adjustment as having the rears lock before the fronts is dangerous.

You can purchase a complete kit including the Wilwood valve and the connectors from Flyin' Miata. I'm sure you could source one locally too. https://www.flyinmiata.com/complete-adjustable-brake-proportioning-kit.html

[RileyR]

Ah awesome thats what im after. Thanks.

1996 BRG NA8

[plohl]

Hey dude, don't worry about brake bias atm, I have had one sitting in the garage for years now... I'll put it in one day... but the cost is better spent on entry fees

I used qfm a1rm on the weekend. Qfm HPX pads might be a bit better for khanas. I have W5's for the tarmac - I don't think you need them unless you're running semis. Too much for a daily. Pretty dead on cold mornings.


Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[Magpie]

Plohl if you are selling the bias think of me, I'm still not convinced I need it.

To the OP, A1RM's are a great pad for daily and light track duty.

If you want an aggressive pad that works from a low temp try the Winmax W6.5's they start at 50 deg c to about 800. The W5's are from 100 deg c, W3's from cold.

[madjak]

Plohl, I've actually never run in a motorsport event without the proportioning valve. As a driver I've always pushed the car to the limit under braking. If it's not squirming in the rear and the tyres aren't chirping I know I'm not braking late enough.

Getting the rear in a MX5 to work actually helps braking a lot and you can't really do that with the stock valve. Plus they are cheap and a 10 min install.

[RileyR]

It sounds like it has its place on the track, though considering its my daily driver im a bit worried that the manual bias valve could void my insurance in the event of an accident or be defect-able etc.

[madjak]

It sounds like it has its place on the track, though considering its my daily driver im a bit worried that the manual bias valve could void my insurance in the event of an accident or be defect-able etc.

Yes, it would be possible but I believe that would only occur if the brake system was the fault and it can be shown the modification was part of the cause. It's the same for any modification to the braking system, except ADR approved mods (ie ADR SS brake lines). Unless the modification is engineered.

If your worried about that, then really the only mods you can do to your brakes are SS lines and more aggressive pads.