NSW Supersprint Championships - Rd7 SMP South

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StillIC
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Re: NSW Supersprint Championships - Rd7 SMP South

Postby StillIC » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:01 pm

Guran wrote:Good job guys

Thanks. And I can verify that you chose the correct round to skip Guran. NSWRRC introduced a new warm up lap system in which the lead car of the group acted like a pace car, so that the out lap was done at no more than a maximum of 80-100km/h (and 40km/h on the exit from pits). This resulted in requiring 2 laps to get some warmth in my tyres. I did note that by the third run virtually no one was sticking to this rule, and no one complained that we weren't!

And perhaps I might also mention the new scrutineer who left my extinguisher sitting in its bracket but not fastened. Yes, it is my responsibility to ensure it is fastened, but if it had been sitting on the passenger seat it would have been a good reminder to do it! That cost me the first run of the day as it floated in my footwell on the first lap. Bugger.
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Luke
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Re: NSW Supersprint Championships - Rd7 SMP South

Postby Luke » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:17 pm

StillIC wrote:
Guran wrote:Good job guys

Thanks. And I can verify that you chose the correct round to skip Guran. NSWRRC introduced a new warm up lap system in which the lead car of the group acted like a pace car, so that the out lap was done at no more than a maximum of 80-100km/h (and 40km/h on the exit from pits). This resulted in requiring 2 laps to get some warmth in my tyres. I did note that by the third run virtually no one was sticking to this rule, and no one complained that we weren't!

I would disagree that this was the round to skip. Only a total of 70 cars were entered for this. And this track really suits our cars.
If I hadn't dropped a round at all this year, it would be the next round I would say is the one to skip. I don't care that it is a national round, to me it is a lot of $$$ for what will likely be little track time if they get their 140 entrants. I still have not entered as I am waiting to see how many cars do enter, now that we can see it live online.

Due to the heat, by round 3 there were only 5 run groups, by round 4 only 5 and round 5 there were only 3.
Plenty of track time was on offer for once.

I would have to agree that the 40km/h business was a rubbish idea, and also noted that it was disregarded by drivers by around run 3.
I already disregarded it for run 2 since I was the lead car in group 5.
I had no grip heading into the 1st corner to start the lap in run 1.

Well the groups were a bit disorganised, but I can't really blame NSWRRC for this, as from what I was told by officials, a lot of people did not nominate a time for the South circuit leaving a lot of guess work for them. Unfortunately the CAMS lap projection calculation does not see to work for this track.

I got within 0.11s of my best, considering the hot temps, pretty good.
I think I did run 6 at around 2PM and pulled the pin. Couldn't be bothered putting in more fuel just to keep frying the car.
Looing at Natsoft I got 34 timed laps in!!!
In contrast Russel got 35 laps in over 8 session due to being in the constantly red flagged group 3. From the sidelines it looked like the same heap of crap Datsun/Nissan that kept creating the red flag.
The 2 non championship radicals did some where near 50 laps!!!

Just something I noted on the day which I did not like.
The Porsche guys took up a few extra car spots, so they can have tyres warmers and a mechanical workshop going. Do you really need all that crap to do 2 runs!!!
Plus there were also some cars not competing parked in the spots as well when I looked around that were mates of guys competing.
There were a handful of guys having to park on the grass hill because of the lack of spots. At least half of them could have been on the tarmac.
If it was me on the hill I would have honestly got at least the non competition cars to move off the tarmac. The Porsche guys, that would probably be a bit harder.
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Re: NSW Supersprint Championships - Rd7 SMP South

Postby stuart1 » Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:37 pm

I dropped out yesterday to SMP as a spectator and took the time to catch with friends and look at the on track action.

From a spectators point of view some sessions were severely impacted by stoppages.

The "pit" area on the south circuit is simply too small but considering that those who had to pit up the hill may have have had an advantage in that their service vehicles/parts were close at hand and they would have been much cooler than those sweltering in the bitumen clad pits.

Regarding a speed limited out lap I think that is a good idea if you are a front runner as with cars being released at 5 second intervals you run the real risk of having to pass the last released runners maybe in your first flying lap plus limiting the speed of the front runners on the out lap could if fact give those last released an extra timed lap.

Regarding the Porsche guys it was interesting to watch and see what they were doing.

It was basically about tyre cycling and allocation.

They put their quick tyres on for the first session or two then mark and remove those tyres and replace them with other tryes from previous rounds.

A simple cost reduction exercise that spreads their good tyres over more than one meeting.

Generally if you had not put in your quick lap by the first session or two yesterday you were basically wasting your equipment...Not good for spectators but a cold hard fact.

I would not complain about the Porsche guys or any other professional team but rather look at what they are doing and learn.

Having said that I like club meetings as they are low pressure and allow you social interaction with fellow competitors. :)

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Luke
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Re: NSW Supersprint Championships - Rd7 SMP South

Postby Luke » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:01 pm

stuart1 wrote:
Regarding a speed limited out lap I think that is a good idea if you are a front runner as with cars being released at 5 second intervals you run the real risk of having to pass the last released runners maybe in your first flying lap plus limiting the speed of the front runners on the out lap could if fact give those last released an extra timed lap.


As said you don't need to gap the cars by 5 seconds from the pits. That is what creates the problem of the 1st car catching the last car quickly which is what has happened at other rounds through out the year.
The running order is generally in time order, so that cars can leave bunched which is what was happening on the day and it worked well. I can't believe I'm praising the running of NSWRRC round from previous experiences, but kudos to them for using common sense and trying something that seems logical to me.
The other thing that helped the day a lot, was no double entered cars. That is the grid man's worse nightmare for moving cars and groups around especially on days with high attrition rates. I can't wait till one day they just say no more double entered cars.
You can run more cars per group the way NSWRRC were running yesterdays event as well. 14 on the South circuit was a non issue which surprised me.

From run 2 onwards, starting at the front, all cars basically just left the pits single file with about 1-2s gaps, I could see almost all 13 other cars as I entered the 2nd corner in my mirrors. I then set a reasonable pace, and gunned it for the last 3 corners of the warm up lap.
I was up to 10s a lap faster than some guys in the Group 4, 5, 6 combo and really only ever had to lap 1-2 cars per session.
In my group only the last 1 or 2 cars was losing a lap because of me lapping them. But being a minute slower over 6 laps they should expect that as they literally got the same track time that I got. I know this as I was the 1st car being flagged each time, I could see them reaching down for the flag just as I was approaching the last 2 corners.

In fact I may even re-word this a bit better, and send it to the committee as a recommendation on how they should continue from now on, as it worked really well if you ignored the 40km/h speech to the 2nd corner that us designated front starters received separately at the start of the day. Following the original 40km/h to the cones halfway up pit exit and carrying reasonable pace through all the corners worked well at keeping cars bunched enough.
To clarify my earlier post, my first run, first lap was hampered by the 2 cars in front of me going to slow around the corners on the out lap, not because I was the lead car going to slow.

It would be good to try letting cars out one after the other for club track days as well, which has happened in the past, depending on who's letting cars go out in the pit lane and the ruling of the CAMS official onsite at SMSP days.
Cars in our club days have more honest entry times with the cars having much more similar characteristics than the Supersprints, so it should work even better.
I find it annoying on club days catching someone when you start up front. There is about a 2-3s lap variation in most groups (Group 1 and last group can be much larger) on club days and I catch the last guy and sometimes 2nd last guy when the cars are spaced with large gaps.
Reduce the gaps to 1-2s all the time and it will be a non issue and may even have the benefit of fitting more cars in a group.
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Re: NSW Supersprint Championships - Rd7 SMP South

Postby greenMachine » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:36 pm

zossy1 wrote:... I did manage a 1:01.50 but this was my first time at South Circuit and I'm confident with a few more clean laps, and in cooler conditions, there is a lot more in it. Still happy with the win though :)

Bloody hell, that is quick! And first time there!! Very well done Chris, that is a great result - I thought I might be able to chase David's time, but when the update came out and I saw your time ... :cry:

Great to see the Club still pulling away in the pointscore, I will be back to help out the numbers at the next round.

:mrgreen:
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david_syd_au
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Re: NSW Supersprint Championships - Rd7 SMP South

Postby david_syd_au » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:34 am

Luke wrote:I find it annoying on club days catching someone when you start up front. There is about a 2-3s lap variation in most groups (Group 1 and last group can be much larger) on club days and I catch the last guy and sometimes 2nd last guy when the cars are spaced with large gaps.
Reduce the gaps to 1-2s all the time and it will be a non issue and may even have the benefit of fitting more cars in a group.

Where this could fall down is if drivers have some slight variation in their pace on the day compared to the times used to generate the run groups. I was gridded behind Dan and Russ but was able to lap slightly faster, so with no gap there was contention straight away in the first run. I dealt with this in subsequent runs by putting in a slow out lap, effectively building that normal 5 sec gap and then doing a couple of quick ones. Also, with only a small gap if someone makes a mistake there is much more chance of contention, or worse, even a collision.
Luke wrote:The Porsche guys took up a few extra car spots, so they can have tyres warmers and a mechanical workshop going. Do you really need all that crap to do 2 runs!!!
Plus there were also some cars not competing parked in the spots as well when I looked around that were mates of guys competing.
There were a handful of guys having to park on the grass hill because of the lack of spots. At least half of them could have been on the tarmac.

Then the MX-5 crew is guilty too, as we had a marquee setup for communal shade which was effectively occupying an extra car spot.

greenMachine wrote:Bloody hell, that is quick! And first time there!! Very well done Chris, that is a great result - I thought I might be able to chase David's time, but when the update came out and I saw your time ... :cry:
:mrgreen:
Me too :cry:

FWIW, here is my PB lap 1:03.5 from Saturday. Constructive criticism welcome as always :-)
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Re: NSW Supersprint Championships - Rd7 SMP South

Postby Luke » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:25 am

david_syd_au wrote:Where this could fall down is if drivers have some slight variation in their pace on the day compared to the times used to generate the run groups. I was gridded behind Dan and Russ but was able to lap slightly faster, so with no gap there was contention straight away in the first run. I dealt with this in subsequent runs by putting in a slow out lap, effectively building that normal 5 sec gap and then doing a couple of quick ones. Also, with only a small gap if someone makes a mistake there is much more chance of contention, or worse, even a collision.


That is where communication with the grid marshal comes in.
I constantly see at Supersprints competitors complaining between themselves that they are being held up, yet they don't go and talk to the other drivers in front of them and the grid marshal to be moved around in the group.
The 1st and to some extent the 2nd run will always have issues of cars with varying time, but communication can sought the group out pretty quickly if competitors are willing to talk.
Every time I go to a Sprint the grid marshal knows my name by the end of the day, because I talk to them.

Slowing down to keep a gap on the warm up lap so you don't catch up during the timed laps is what makes the train longer as the cars behind you end up being further behind on the warm up lap.

And again if the cars are in order of time that is adjusted during the event as necessary, the gap should get bigger between them during the run, so risk of collision should already be minimised.
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