2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

New South Wales and Canberra Motorsport

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Nuddy
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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby Nuddy » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:30 am

MX593 wrote:Only did 2 runs before the heat and arthritis got the better of me.
Did better in the class points than I thought though. Good strategic move that one.
Had a hard time with a new 6.2 liter HSV Commodore that chose to ignore the blue flags being franticly waved at him and intentionally blocked every corner lap after lap.
Fast in a straight line with a few hundred more horsepower, but couldn't brake and get around a corner to save his life.
The bloke in a WRX that put in a dangerous overtaking move on me under a yellow flag was a worry too. He could only do it after getting the checkered flag for the end of session.
The 5 liter Commodore that was clearly un-road worthy, blowing thick blue smoke and dropping oil every time he hit the gas was a special. With his weaving all over the track to try to block other cars and dropping oil had all of us trying to pass him treading carefully and waiting for a safe stop to pass.
The organisers kept banging on about windows being open in hardtops, but ignored clear breaches of motorsport rules.
An Amazing day at the track! Can't wait to run with MX5s again.

Reading the above it concerns me (in advance).
Lap times being made up of speed down the straights and speed through the corners can easily result in cars with very different characteristics (power vs cornering) running similar lap times and thus being grouped together in a supersprints.
Then i imagine you would get the powerful car overtaking the less powerful down the main straight and the less powerful clawing back through the rest of the circuit. Possibly the less powerful car would the overtake the more powerful car before the main straight, only to repeat the process each lap.
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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby StillIC » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:39 am

Guran wrote:That's such a slippery subject Scott......
The moral is don't buy Rspec tyres that are absent from schedule E assuming they're eligible as road tyres without first seeking a ruling from the competition authorities. It can be a very expensive mistake.

100% agreed.
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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby StillIC » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:46 am

RS2000 wrote:.....
Cheers, Gregg

Hi Gregg. I didn't realise until this post that you are RS2000. I should have guessed from your name!
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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby StillIC » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:52 am

greenMachine wrote:....
Tony, I understand that the answer is yes and no.....

I can't wait for Russ to really throw the cat among the pigeons by arguing his yellow NB coupe is an open car because it is an MX5 with no roll cage!
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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby RS2000 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:00 am

Nuddy wrote:Would i be correct to assume that at CSCA supersprints the majority of entrants would be Marque?


Can vary at individual rounds, but over the 7 rounds in a year, usually about 50/50.

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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby RS2000 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:09 am

StillIC wrote:
RS2000 wrote:.....
Cheers, Gregg

Hi Gregg. I didn't realise until this post that you are RS2000. I should have guessed from your name!


Ah, Scott I presume... haven't seen you for a while. It's a small world.

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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby greenMachine » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:11 pm

Nuddy wrote:
MX593 wrote:Only did 2 runs before the heat and arthritis got the better of me.
Did better in the class points than I thought though. Good strategic move that one.
Had a hard time with a new 6.2 liter HSV Commodore that chose to ignore the blue flags being franticly waved at him and intentionally blocked every corner lap after lap.
Fast in a straight line with a few hundred more horsepower, but couldn't brake and get around a corner to save his life.
The bloke in a WRX that put in a dangerous overtaking move on me under a yellow flag was a worry too. He could only do it after getting the checkered flag for the end of session.
The 5 liter Commodore that was clearly un-road worthy, blowing thick blue smoke and dropping oil every time he hit the gas was a special. With his weaving all over the track to try to block other cars and dropping oil had all of us trying to pass him treading carefully and waiting for a safe stop to pass.
The organisers kept banging on about windows being open in hardtops, but ignored clear breaches of motorsport rules.
An Amazing day at the track! Can't wait to run with MX5s again.

Reading the above it concerns me (in advance).
Lap times being made up of speed down the straights and speed through the corners can easily result in cars with very different characteristics (power vs cornering) running similar lap times and thus being grouped together (my emphasis) in a supersprints.
Then i imagine you would get the powerful car overtaking the less powerful down the main straight and the less powerful clawing back through the rest of the circuit. Possibly the less powerful car would the overtake the more powerful car before the main straight, only to repeat the process each lap.


Correct. Obviously.

As I mentioned previously, there are ways of dealing with this situation. Not all of them work all the time, but generally the situation can be resolved. I should also point out that while this does occur, it only happens infrequently and then to usually only one MX5 driver. To that driver though, it is a very real problem, and most of us have experienced this situation at different times.

First option is to outbrake the other car into (in this case) T2, if feasible. That is, get ahead at the start of the twisties, and hope that you have built enough of a gap to get to T1 before the other driver.

If that doesn't work, or is not possible, gap them - slow down, sacrifice the lap to establish enough of a gap to have a full speed lap next time around. This means you have to exit the last corner at full speed, so the decision to try this tactic needs to be made early enough to let the other car pull ahead (sometimes a looong way ahead). Sometimes judging how far back to fall is hard, and you get it wrong.

Then you have the option of speaking to the other driver, and arranging a grid swap, which includes an agreement for you to go hard on the warmup to open a gap, and the other driver to hold back. Most drivers are amenable to this, but you need to remember that they are trying to do the same as you so it needs to be a win/win arrangement.

Finally, see the CofC/grid marshal and formally arrange a grid swap. If the other driver is uncooperative, this might mean having the grid marshal having a word in his ear, to tell him to leave you room.

Sometimes more than one is employed - first try the overtake, then try the gapping, and finally the grid swap.

The on-track stuff needs care, because we are not racing. However overtaking is permitted, and though it probably has happened, I have not heard of an MX5 getting grief for hassling, and overtaking, the V8 barges where we have the handling advantage.

This is highly competitive State title level motor racing, and few people are there just to make up the numbers. So you need to handle situations like this in a way that complies with the spirit of the event, but still gives you the best chance of getting the result you want. The alternative is to simply drive around with same same cars, and I don't think either of us want that.

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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby Nuddy » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:23 pm

Yes I see. Still best to avoid the problem if possible by running with cars of similar characteristics, such as MX-5 track days.
My experience so far is watching the track day and MX-5 cup on 5th March. No problems there.
That day enthused me to get into MX-5 cup if I can.
So the purpose now is to get as much track time as I can and evelop myself and the car to get below 1:16 at Wakefield as soon as practically and economically possible.
I am getting a Torsen so I won't be class 1 any more but that's ok. I'm not chasing a trophy nor a pointscore.
I'm hoping my rollbar comes soon so that I can do the supersprint on 2nd April. I can't do the track day on 23rd April :(
Hillclimb on 30th April then there's another CSCA supersprint on 13th May (SMSP nth crt).
Next day is NSW Supersprint Rnd 2 at Wakefield followed by MX-5 club track day on the Monday.
I will (hopefully) do the Saturday and Monday for sure. I am wondering about the sunday Rnd2.
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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby RS2000 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:11 pm

Nuddy wrote:Lap times being made up of speed down the straights and speed through the corners can easily result in cars with very different characteristics (power vs cornering) running similar lap times and thus being grouped together in a supersprints.
Then i imagine you would get the powerful car overtaking the less powerful down the main straight and the less powerful clawing back through the rest of the circuit. Possibly the less powerful car would the overtake the more powerful car before the main straight, only to repeat the process each lap.


That can happen sometimes at Supersprints & Regularity. Sometimes the less powerful, better handling car won't be able to get past. If there is no one close behind, then drop back to give you some room to have a good go next lap. As others said, talk to the other driver(s) & see if you can reverse positions for the next run.
Diving up the inside into a corner at CSCA is a no-no. Drivers are told to maintain the racing line, & the onus is on the overtaking driver to do it safely.
To help this situation, we try to group cars from fastest to slowest as best we can - a hard task!

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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby StillIC » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:16 pm

RS2000 wrote:...
Diving up the inside into a corner at CSCA is a no-no. Drivers are told to maintain the racing line, & the onus is on the overtaking driver to do it safely.
...

Does CSCA still use coloured groups?

When I used to run CSCA years ago we weren't organised by time, merely grouped into ~5 rough groups (as did the state series), where about half the field were in the 'White' group. In my standard Celica, then in my almost standard NA6, I was stuck in slowest 'white' group, being about 1 sec per lap too slow at EC to move up to blue group. I have lost count of the number of old Jaguars and Austin Healys that wouldn't know the racing line if it was painted on their dashboard. They were impossible to pass as they swerved all over every corner at snails pace, never coming close to reaching the limit of grip, not using the full width of the track (but impossible to tell if they would miss the apex or clear the exit by metres until too late to pass), never using their mirrors, thus making diving up their inside a very risky endeavour.

But most drivers at the state series were and are much better than most of the bottom half of the CSCA field. But not all.

At the state series I have found only two ways to pass. Diving under brakes, or waiting for the other driver to wave me past.
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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby david_syd_au » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:27 pm

NSW Supersprint round organisers tend to separate "power" cars from "handling" cars to give drivers of both the chance of better runs with less contention, and to also reduce the chance of collisions between the power cars which tend to be larger with the handling cars which tend to be smaller, which tends to end badly for the smaller cars.
I noticed that at NSW Supersprint Rd 1, nearly all the MX-5s were in one group, with a couple of others scattered in other groups, like Guran.
My experience has been that this isn't usually a big problem, and when it is, that one the strategies discussed previously in this thread usually gets a result.
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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby MX593 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:17 pm

Nuddy, on first run the HSV was 3 cars in front on the grid, but only took 1and 1/2 laps to catch up and that was that. Couldn't get past without doing something stupid. I'd rather just be on a Sunday drive than get involved in something stupid. Most frustrating, but without HP that's that. Second run I hung well back for a whole lap before speeding up, but managed to get caught behind a smokey and drippy Commodore till a safe spot to pass popped up. Got in a couple of clean laps after that, but down 1 sec off my last time there. After the finish flag got passed on the inside at T2 under yellow by a young bloke in a WRX who saw his big chance to pass. It was 2pm by then and I'd had enough. Put the car straight on the trailer and took off for the 3 hour drive home. It happens Nuddy, you pay your money and take your chances. It doesn't always go the way you'd like it to go, but the car's not bent, still goes OK and just avoided crashing on the M5 on the way up on the Saturday. So the weekend wasn't all bad. Coincidently, ordered a new helmet and HANS today.

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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby Nuddy » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:31 pm

RS2000 wrote:I am the event sec. for CSCA Rd.2 at SMP North on 2nd April, & as Guran has indicated, I'm almost certain there will be vacancies for 'visitors'.

Cheers, Gregg

Thanks Gregg
Are entries open yet.
I might join MG Newcastle anyway
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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby RS2000 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:54 pm

david_syd_au wrote:NSW Supersprint round organisers tend to separate "power" cars from "handling" cars to give drivers of both the chance of better runs with less contention, and to also reduce the chance of collisions between the power cars which tend to be larger with the handling cars which tend to be smaller, which tends to end badly for the smaller cars.
I noticed that at NSW Supersprint Rd 1, nearly all the MX-5s were in one group, with a couple of others scattered in other groups, like Guran.
My experience has been that this isn't usually a big problem, and when it is, that one the strategies discussed previously in this thread usually gets a result.


We try to do all that too, but usually not possible with all groups.

Scott, most CSCA clubs now let cars out of dummy grid in single file, with no gap between them. Cams allow you to do this if cars are gridded fastest to slowest. I guess NSW S/S do this too. It saves time & drivers seem to prefer it to the old system, of out in pairs with 5 or more secs between them.
Trouble is, event secretary's spend countless hours chasing best lap times! The info can be put on CEE, but few seem to do it, so natsoft gets a workout.

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Re: 2017 CAMS NSW Superprints Championship

Postby RS2000 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:59 pm

Nuddy wrote:
RS2000 wrote:I am the event sec. for CSCA Rd.2 at SMP North on 2nd April, & as Guran has indicated, I'm almost certain there will be vacancies for 'visitors'.

Cheers, Gregg

Thanks Gregg
Are entries open yet.
I might join MG Newcastle anyway


Entries opened on 1st March. Entry is via Cams Event Entry only. You will find the sup regs there, or on the MGCCN website.
Look forward to receiving your entry Nuddy.


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