Patchy's Fawlty Towers risk management. Enter at own risk

Alex 2550 · Postby **Alex 2550** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:44 am

Hey Mate,
Glad to hear you had a safe trip.
I think i have mentioned before my Gary Stewart BP4W is shaved 62thou if that helps you.
Im not sure if you are familiar with the "quinn build" NB, he is putting out 185 american horses at the wheels on a standard bottom end and has been for years. yes it has ITB's but its good to look at.
check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyd5mfwMLIY
and a thread here http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/89-roa ... ntent.html
also google "quinn nb all motor" but he tells you exactly how he has done it and its been reliable, from memory he is running 10mm lift with 70thou shaved. yes that will make the motor an interference motor but keep up the timing belts and it wont be an issue.
there is a few different stages but i think 170hp was hit without porting but don't quote me.

speed · Postby **speed** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:45 am

Nice one STM!

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StanTheMan · Postby **StanTheMan** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:05 pm

Alex 2550 wrote:Hey Mate,
Glad to hear you had a safe trip.
I think i have mentioned before my Gary Stewart BP4W is shaved 62thou if that helps you.
Im not sure if you are familiar with the "quinn build" NB, he is putting out 185 american horses at the wheels on a standard bottom end and has been for years. yes it has ITB's but its good to look at.
check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyd5mfwMLIY
and a thread here http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/89-roa ... ntent.html
also google "quinn nb all motor" but he tells you exactly how he has done it and its been reliable, from memory he is running 10mm lift with 70thou shaved. yes that will make the motor an interference motor but keep up the timing belts and it wont be an issue.
there is a few different stages but i think 170hp was hit without porting but don't quote me.

That link....for club roadster....
I'm familiar with Quinn. Very much like his work.
I have to find a machine shop who is willing to take that much off. But first on the agenda is how thick the current head actually is. taking 1.5 mm off a head is poiuntless unless you know how much anyone else s has taken off previously....if at all
my lift is 10.4mmm
just have to make sure the timing is 100% first go

are American horses different to Aussie horses?....apart from being born on a different continent?

170 would be super nice....I'm aiming for 160 atw. but in the end, it will be what it will be

rascal · Postby **rascal** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:13 pm

StanTheMan wrote:are American horses different to Aussie horses?....apart from being born on a different continent?

Yes, it does seem so.
American power figures tend to be about 30hp weaker than ours.

eg, midly tweaked cars make 150whp there, where ours make more like 120whp here.
A stock NB there makes 130whp whereas ours are more like 100whp here.
So Quinns 182whp would be more like 150whp here.

Alex 2550 · Postby **Alex 2550** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:20 pm

http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/89-roa ... ntent.html try that mate.
you are spot on to measure the thickness first as there is a variation from Mazda and you don't know if it has been skimmed already.
with my head shave i may need 2 adjusters on the timing belt instead of the factory one tensioner with an idler to get the belt to be tight enough.
yer american horses are smaller because there dyno number always appear higher than they do for the same setups in Aus, same power just takes more horses to make it :lol:

the 725c cams im looking at (but made for solids) are 274 advertised, 232 @0.050 with 10.16mm lift.
Dann told me of an NA6 making 140hp from them with a tired bottom end so you should see 160 from your monsters.
i have the square/flat top manifold and no intentions of going to ITB's which on my head and my cams may see less power than is 100% possible but i can't justify the stuffing around for a street although i love the sound.

StanTheMan · Postby **StanTheMan** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:26 pm

Alex 2550 wrote:the 725c cams im looking at (but made for solids) are 274 advertised, 232 @0.050 with 10.16mm lift.
Dann told me of an NA6 making 140hp from them with a tired bottom end so you should see 160 from your monsters.
i have the square/flat top manifold and no intentions of going to ITB's which on my head and my cams may see less power than is 100% possible but i can't justify the stuffing around for a street although i love the sound.

nice.....

93_Clubman · Postby **93_Clubman** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:42 pm

StanTheMan wrote:hopefully have all this ready to go in by Jan or feb next year

Yeah, good Summer project.

StanTheMan · Postby **StanTheMan** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:00 am

The weekend office for the next little while.

I could have done a better job in color with the color co-ordination. Should have got a red toolbox...

20170916_121008_PANO.jpg

anyway I started test fitting the new cams and it looks like I need to sort that out. I dont have feeler gauges at this point. But its significant

20170916_134150.jpg

Head is off & engine and it looks.....normal. apart from oil that looks like its never been changed.

20170916_145157.jpg

I'll give it a good measurement today.....and it will go off to the machine shop in a few weeks.

engine block.
positive part is there are still marks on the cylinder walls. The B6 was completely polished

20170916_145203.jpg

93_Clubman · Postby **93_Clubman** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:32 am

StanTheMan wrote:started test fitting the new cams and it looks like I need to sort that out.

Did you find the outside of the lifter bores need a little machining to allow the cam lobes to fully rotate?

StanTheMan · Postby **StanTheMan** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:36 am

It rotates without issues. I think its like you said....perhaps a smaller diameter to be able to accommodate the high lift without having to modify the lifter guides on the head. I was all ready to start grinding....

93_Clubman · Postby **93_Clubman** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:39 am

Great - one less item for the list!

StanTheMan · Postby **StanTheMan** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:02 am

I manged to get the head measured. and the intake cam re shimming required for the new cams.

re shimming.JPG

The head is 134.40 mm thick.....

Ive still got to get my head around these massive head shaves of 1.5mm..... This would bring the head down to 132.90.. which is like 0.7mm thinner that what Mazda recommend?

can someone spell this out for me.....is it safe ?

These guys like Quinn taking 2mm off are obviously ignoring the minimum recommendations....

I month ago maybe a bit longer I stopped being able to connect to the megasquirt. I've noticed that its running somewhat lean. the engine was complaining a bit. E85 has probably gpone back to 85% since winter is over.

sorted that out with a new cable. But big difference. Ive gone on the rich side over 65 Mpa & patchy really likes. I moved from 12.5 down to 12.1 at WOT.shes purring along....but she's still using heaps of oil. But engine feels real solid the the VE adjustments

Postby **Okibi** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:24 am

Race car or road car? Is it worth squeezing the last bit of performance and risk having what could be a more temperamental engine?

StanTheMan · Postby **StanTheMan** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:46 am

it will be all raod car Okibi

Alex 2550 · Postby **Alex 2550** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:39 pm

Hey mate,
if it helps and you can give me a couple days i can measure total thickness of my BP4W for you if you like i remember 60 odd thou and i think that was off the largest factory quoted thickness.
Manga_blue has told me i may need to run 2 tensioners on the timing belt but won't know until Dann gets it bolted up i think so keep that in mind.