ND battery under-spec'd?

[Rocky]

I have bought a few Mazdas and might even buy another before I hang up my string-backs, but they do not have a better track-record than anybody else as I thought I just illustrated with the three examples I cited.
The bottom line is that all the makers are just about as bad as each other and will try to get away with dishonest behaviour if they think they can.
It is the responsibility of the consumer to keep them honest IF we can.

[Mr Morlock]

Cars of 40-60 years ago as far as I remember were never even subject to recalls and had minimal warranty periods. You bought vehicles which were very often underdone in so many ways- unreliable, rusted, underbraked, dangerous and killing a lot of people. There was a booming market for replacement engines for Holden's - they wore out and you fixed them.

[RBH58]

Cars of 40-60 years ago as far as I remember were never even subject to recalls and had minimal warranty periods. You bought vehicles which were very often underdone in so many ways- unreliable, rusted, underbraked, dangerous and killing a lot of people. There was a booming market for replacement engines for Holden's - they wore out and you fixed them.

True. But a replacement Holden 6 was cheap and really simple to swap out. I did it myself a couple of times! These days, they may as well weld the bonnet shut and just provide a flap to access the oil, water, washer and battery.

[Rocky]

MM - are you suggesting we should be accepting the standards of 40-60 years ago?
Part of the problem with modern cars is the obsession with gimmicks.
The improvements in the 'basics' has been very considerable from a performance and reliability point of view, but the proliferation of unnecessary 'gimmicks' has introduced a category of component that unnecessarily complicates the maintenance situation, increases the cost of maintenance, and reduces the desirability of older vehicles as the myriad of electronic components fail and it becomes increasingly uneconomic to repair them on an older vehicle.
Gimmicks they can leave off any vehicle I buy include: stop/start systems; emergency braking; self-parking; automated wipers & lights; proximity keys; electronic suspension settings; memory seats; lane-change warnings. There are probably more. (I DO like adaptive Cruise and external mirrors that fold in to the body at shutdown.)

[project.r.racing]

Cars built and business practices of 40-60 years ago are totally irrelevant in today's world.

[Mr Morlock]

PRR is right in that the past is not somewhere we want to go back to as far a daily drivers are concerned. Modern vehicles are vastly better albeit packed with technology and devices that not everyone uses. However some companies are not so customer and quality focussed as others.

Personally I like a number of the new technologies. Many of them add safety and convenience to a car and makers must offer these things otherwise their opposition steal an advantage. I was lucky to get exposure in the car industry when Quality was starting to get some traction. It was easy to scoff at it but the longer the exposure the more one realised that getting high reliability was never an accident but all about process improvement and measurement. I remember an MD who always talked in PPM - it seemed a bit ridiculous but it did have an impact. Another MD regularly travelled to Jpn in the 70's and told us about JIT. We were amazed at the stories of trucks in Jpn waiting for a call to deliver to the car co when in Au we were filling warehouses with parts on a push system not a pull.

[RBH58]

As much as I think cars reached their styling pinnacle in the 1960s, give me new car if I’m about to have a big accident. And if you can have the spirit of a 1960s sports car with 21st century safety...well...bonus.

[Rocky]

There's a big difference in Primary safety features and the gimmicks that pass for "safety systems" in modern cars.
Nobody is denying that modern cars have better built-in Primary safety systems but you will never convince me that all the Mickey-Mouse electronic rubbish is part of that.
I am fortunately at a time in my life when I can choose to buy an older car that doesn't have all this junk and spend 10 or 20 grand upgrading it to reliability if it amuses me. I just may do this with the next one as I hate what modern cars have become.

[RBH58]

There's a big difference in Primary safety features and the gimmicks that pass for "safety systems" in modern cars.
Nobody is denying that modern cars have better built-in Primary safety systems but you will never convince me that all the Mickey-Mouse electronic rubbish is part of that.
I am fortunately at a time in my life when I can choose to buy an older car that doesn't have all this junk and spend 10 or 20 grand upgrading it to reliability if it amuses me. I just may do this with the next one as I hate what modern cars have become.

Nah....I don’t agree. ABS is a life saver. I’d never disable it even if I could. I can’t out perform ABS. I’ve tried (and failed) in controlled situations. And for most drivers in a “swerve and avoid” situation, stability control is a life saver too.

[93_Clubman]

I just may do this with the next one as I hate what modern cars have become.

Rocky, get a low km Bluebird!

[StanTheMan]

Cars built and business practices of 40-60 years ago are totally irrelevant in today's world.

Ha ha....isnt that the truth

50 years ago...you'd walk into a Jag dealership. When you orders your new Jag. You's also fill out a form which would ask you where you'd like your oil leak. 3-4 different places were part of the upgrades. Then you would do the same with the electrical parts. LOL.

The japanese certainly showed the Europeans how to build cars not neccecarily innovation but certainly quality workmanship in compARISON......with the exceptions of VAG who took it to a new bonus level. VAG wanted to convince us that diesel is safe and rewrite science & with diesel experiments on humans & monkeys.....OMG the scandal.

ahhh ƒü¢k give me all the shitty safety-stuff of the new world .....as long as its not a VAG.

[StanTheMan]

There's a big difference in Primary safety features and the gimmicks that pass for "safety systems" in modern cars.
Nobody is denying that modern cars have better built-in Primary safety systems but you will never convince me that all the Mickey-Mouse electronic rubbish is part of that.
I am fortunately at a time in my life when I can choose to buy an older car that doesn't have all this junk and spend 10 or 20 grand upgrading it to reliability if it amuses me. I just may do this with the next one as I hate what modern cars have become.

I'm know what you are saying.....I'm sure were the same vintage. But I quite like all that safety sh*t. In fact I love it. cause in my old age i cant hear all the alarms going off.Ive gone deaf.

[Rocky]

I just may do this with the next one as I hate what modern cars have become.

Rocky, get a low km Bluebird!

Ha! Clubman - you have been reading my mind. My 2006 Mazda 6 is nothing like as competent as the 1993 Nissan Bluebird. The Bluebird was quicker and handled better and was much more satisfying on a long trip. It was totally reliable for the first 20 years of it's life and in retrospect I am sorry I sold it. The reason I felt I had to get rid of it was that in the last few years it had needed a new distributor, the wheel alignment could no longer be perfectly adjusted, the accelerator linkage let go, and the fuel pipe into the tank had cracked. I just felt the whole car was starting to show it's age and wasn't 'classic' enough to put a lot of money into it.
It was my kind of car - great brakes and dynamics, quality throughout and NO unnecessary electronic crap.

[RBH58]

I was at an advanced driving course where we had a last minute direction change combined with an immediate swerve and brake (hard) challenge...on a wet road. You had to hit a line at a predetermined speed and the instructor gave you a signal to go left or right as you hit the line and you had to follow to the left or right whilst braking hard to pull up before the second line.

I could perform the exercise perfectly up to 120kph with the ABS enabled. Try as hard as I could, with the ABS fuse pulled, I couldn’t better 90kph without overshooting the 2nd line or sliding out. Even my instructor (a well known professional racing driver) couldn’t better 100kph without ABS.

Electronic crap? Bullshit it is.

[93_Clubman]

Indeed, a locked wheel will not steer.