86 or MX-5

[JBT]

On second thoughts maybe I shouldn't... I'd like to keep the ND a while longer and need to resist the temptation of a new project!

[JBT]

There is also the E82 125i and the E87 130i (5 door hatch). They run the 6 cylinder N52 NA 3 litre engine - will still give you a good kick in the pants and make a great little track car or daily.

[The Zork]

The car is firm and feels completely stuck to the road. But it's kinda slow, it would be faster than Rockies NB. I should know as I have one. The stock NB is slow, the diff has too high a ratio, the 86 diff also suffers from this but less so because it has more power, but alas the diff ratio is wrong, takes too long to run through the gears. The 86 is a very sweet package but needs power at lower RPM, it's flat and boring below 5500 rpm.

Otherwise I'd really have one. I've been rather spoiled by having a supercharged MX-5...The 86 is TOO SLOW. TOO SLOW, otherwise a very sweet package indeed.

Compare the pair. SE with suspension, cai, etc, etc, making 150 rwkw. 86/brz with suspension, cai, diff, tuned on E85 making 135 rwkw. Both on AO50 rubber.
Sandown - 86/brz 1.25, SE 1.28
PI - 86/brz 1.51, SE 1.56

All to do with balance, even though the 86/brz weighs 250 kg more. 86/brz faster car. Just new technology. Real world comparison.

[yertimer]

I've owned both. What are you looking for in a car? What are your intended uses?

This will determine the answer.

Hi SKYHI - what do you think the answer is for a track car including driving to and from the track?

[bruce]

That's what I was saying bout perception. An 86 may feel slow but reality is it's a faster car.

[greenMachine]

There was an 86 in NSW Supersprints, very experienced driver, much mods. Bloody fast, Lotus-type lap times at SMP GP. No idea what has been done to the car, but it was still road registered (2B requires this). Being registered in ACT (no annual inspections), mods could be very serious.

The picture elsewhere is more mixed, the 86s are slower than (sometimes similar to) the MX5s where they run in the same class. I haven't done a serious study of the results but that is my observation. Based on that, I would say that a detailed knowledge of the car mods, and some idea of the driver skill levels would be needed.

Zork, I reckon there is something wrong with a 150rwk SE doing 1.56s at PI - my NB8A, stock engine (not even a CAI!), coilovers and AO50s did 2.02s there on AO50s (and I am no gun driver) - 50+RWKW has got to be worth a lot more than five or six seconds at PI of all places. Either he wasn't trying, or was simply slow, either way the comparison just doesn't stack up. I know of one SE with probably similar power that did better than 1.55 without trying (because Regularity), and it was that driver's first visit there.

In short, yes the 86 can be a faster car with the right driver and a fat chequebook. But you would have to do your research to find out what is needed to make it go that fast. Technology and balance have little to do with it - money and skill are the key ingredients.

My 2c.

[Red_Bullet]

As a daily the 86 would be absolutely dull. Stick your boot into at 40kmh in 2nd gear and it really is slow. I drove an 86 from a car yard and then came home and jumped into my Rotrex SC 142KW Mx-5. Then I drove my son's RS Megane 250.

86 slow at road speeds, no acceleration, on the track over 5500 RPM may be another story, but I haven't had the opportunity.

Megane has a lot of low down power and is a blast to drive but gets to the rather low redline very soon, rev limiter cuts in around 5800. Doesn't really wind out. It's nice to stick the boot into it and enjoy the turbo surge.

MX-5, being a centrifugal SC you still have to rev it to make it go and is a joy to rev to 7000 and gets there reasonable quickly probably not as quick acceleration as the Megane but way more fun. I'm sure the Megane would be faster around a track, I've dríven both around Norwell. The MX-5 is more "Fun" but the Meg is quicker. Go-kart vs car.

[Mr Morlock]

All opinions- but Motor did a full blown testing of sporting cars July edition I think. It has every fact and figure and commentary from Warren Luff and the other knowledgeable testers. The 86/BRZ is actually fast but its all relative- some of the other cars are super fast and expensive etc. The 86 got great reviews from the testers who reckoned it was just a great fun vehicle and they enjoyed driving it. Personally I dont think 250KW is essential to having a great driving car based on the stark reality that you cannot use all those KWs anyway.

[RS2000]

There was an 86 in NSW Supersprints, very experienced driver, much mods. Bloody fast, Lotus-type lap times at SMP GP. No idea what has been done to the car, but it was still road registered (2B requires this). Being registered in ACT (no annual inspections), mods could be very serious.

Back in 2013-15 there was a white 2013 86 GT from the ACT doing CSCA & NSW Supersprints. He was regularly doing low 1min 10secs at WP.
When I talked to him he said it was stock (except for semi-slicks), & was keeping it that way because his thing was to see how quick a standard car could be. He was a pro driver.

What's an unmodified NC with semi's & a good driver do at WP?

[greenMachine]

There was an 86 in NSW Supersprints, very experienced driver, much mods. Bloody fast, Lotus-type lap times at SMP GP. No idea what has been done to the car, but it was still road registered (2B requires this). Being registered in ACT (no annual inspections), mods could be very serious.

Back in 2013-15 there was a white 2013 86 GT from the ACT doing CSCA & NSW Supersprints. He was regularly doing low 1min 10secs at WP.
When I talked to him he said it was stock (except for semi-slicks), & was keeping it that way because his thing was to see how quick a standard car could be. He was a pro driver.

What's an unmodified NC with semi's & a good driver do at WP?

The car I am thinking of did three rounds of the 2016 NSW Championship in 2B (road registered modified): WP (high 10s), SMPGP (high 51s), SMP South (very low 5s). In comparison, the fastest MX5 in that class at those same events did high 12s, mid 56s and mid 5s. The big differential at SMPGP suggests a power advantage playing out there at least, by contrast at SMP South (a handling circuit) the times were less than half a second apart. The car was certainly modified (or it would presumably be running 1B unmodified road registered) judging by the noise and speed at which he passed me on the SMPGP main straight!

[SKYHI]

I've owned both. What are you looking for in a car? What are your intended uses?

This will determine the answer.

Hi SKYHI - what do you think the answer is for a track car including driving to and from the track?

For a car you can drive to the track, cut laps, and drive home, I would go with an 86 if I could afford it. Maintenance costs are about the same, but the initial outlay will be about double for the 86.

[bruce]

Yup, the great attraction of any 5, the affordability. Wait until the 86 gets more age on it and gets cheaper.

[SKYHI]

Compare the pair. SE with suspension, cai, etc, etc, making 150 rwkw. 86/brz with suspension, cai, diff, tuned on E85 making 135 rwkw. Both on AO50 rubber.
Sandown - 86/brz 1.25, SE 1.28
PI - 86/brz 1.51, SE 1.56

All to do with balance, even though the 86/brz weighs 250 kg more. 86/brz faster car. Just new technology. Real world comparison.

I had an 86 with MCA Reds, XForce headers, E85 tune, Z221 tyres that made 130 rwkws - Lakeside lap time 61.03
I now have an SE with MCA X-Rs, ECU, injectors, exhaust, AD08R tyres that makes 165 rwkws - Lakeside lap time 62.25

SE still owes me less, and on the same tyres would probably do a similar time to the 86. However, the SE is a little more "on edge" that the 86 was.

[JBT]

...I dont think 250KW is essential to having a great driving car based on the stark reality that you cannot use all those KWs anyway.

That's what i thought too...until I had one.

[RBH58]

I’ve owned both...well...BRZ before my current RF. I prefer the RF.

The Toybaru kills it for packaging. The Toybaru can swallow a surprising amount of luggage and the MX5 is useless. You really can put a full set of track day wheels and ramps and a trolley jack in the back of a Toybaru. The Toybaru is also the better setup “track car” out-of-the-box and is tidier at 9/10ths. And it has better steering than the MX5...probably one of the best electric racks on the market at any price.

The MX5 is the nicer place to sit. It rides better. The 2.0 driveline is waaay sweeter with torque everywhere. It’s not any engine that really requires you to keep it on the boil to make any progress...where the Toybaru needs 5000+ all the time if you a spanking it....and it doesn’t reward you with any nice sounds either. The MX5 is the more entertaining handler over a wider range. The MX5 feels lively and fun doing 50kph driving to the shops. And you can feel it’s lesser mass too. Having said that, it did a great job keeping up with a bunch of RenaultSports across the Reefton Spur last weekend so it’s not out of its depth against the hottest of hot hatches.

So...both great cars, but it’s a shame that the Toybaru is saddled with that crude boxer lump. It really spoils the car.